MasterCard makes its 270-page "Merchant Rules" available in PDF for public download at this page. Section 9.12.3 on page 2-22 reads in full "A merchant must not require, or post signs indicating that it requires, a minimum or maximum transaction amount to accept a valid MasterCard card."

They also have this page to report merchants who violate it. The first check box for describing the type of violation is "In order to make a MasterCard purchase, the merchant/retailer required a minimum or maximum amount."

I haven't checked other credit card associations or issuers, but I suspect others have similar information available.

They do. All 5 major CC issuers have links to their full merchant agreements somewhere on their sites.

Amex:
https://www152.americanexpress.com/E...ernet&origin=6

MC: http://www.mastercard.com/us/persona...iolations.html

Go to the sites for Visa, Diners and Discover for the others and you'll find them.

BTW, it was mentioned by a newbie in this thread that car dealers most likely are using they're non-exceptance of CCs for full payment of the vehicle as a negoitiation tactic, and nothing more. That is not true. Many genuinely don't want to except the CC simply because they will lose money processing the payment.

The newbie (Robin something, I believe), also suggested that CC companies really wont do anything when it actually comes down to the situation between the merchant and the CC company. That it also simply not true. The links above, as well as many people's personal experience (including my own) attest to the fact that CC companies stand by their merchant agreements quite vigorously.

Point, in fact, I pressed a dealer recently to accept my Amex for full purchase price for my SUV ($45,000 full), and they refused. They do accept Amex for servicing, but not for sales. I called Amex on the spot and handed the phone to the sales rep who disappeared. He came back and said his finance manager wouldn't accept talking to Amex over my cell phone. I told this to the Amex CSR and they called him directly while I was still there. I waited an hour, and then he came out and extremely reluctantly accepted my Amex for full payment. You see, Robin, Amex threatened to pull their contract with the dealer for merchant agreement violation, because they DO NOT have any legal standing to refuse payment for one purchase and choose to accept it for another - nor do they have the right limit the amount of payment on the accepted method of payment. And the dealer does not want to lose the ability to accept Amex for all of the charges it takes.

So it is not a fallacy, the merchant agreements exist for our benefit as well. In the end, you will find some dealers will not care and will stand by their own policy, but that is when you file a complaint through one of the links above and follow up with YOUR CC company. Nearly every time I have done this, the merchant backs down.

My parents put an '05 Accord on their AS Platinum Visa...got 23,000 Mileage Plan miles and I don't think they had to pay anything extra. (though I could be wrong).

Interesting...I know a lot of businesses around here, especially small local ones like in a mall food court, won't accept credit cards for purchases under a certain amount (usually $8 or $10).

From reading this thread, it seems clear that dealerships cannot set a minimum or maximum payment amount for using AMEX (for example). Also, it's clear that if a dealership accepts the card in their service department, then they need to accept it in sales as well.

But what still isn't clear to me is whether a dealer can tack on an additional x% "processing fee" to cover what they'd pay to the card company for the transaction. Or, if they don't push it as a fee for using a credit card, it would be a "discount" for paying in cash. Could someone please clarify this? TIA. The prospect of 22k Starwood points is pretty intriguing...

I've never had a problem with CCs at the car dealer. Twice in the last year, I have maxed out cards putting money down just for the miles. The response was generally a scoff due to potential interest but never an outright refusal...they were $7,500 and $10,000 charges.

This is because there is a per transaction charge as well as a percentage bite on the transaction. Before you push too hard on this keep in mind that the small guys often just don't have the margin to eat the credit card charges on small transactions. My local newstand went out of business not so long ago, in part, because of credit card issues.

The card companies are an oligopoly (from which some, e.g., FTers profit). They maintain very high charges from the lack of competition in the market, competition which they restrict. The small merchants are getting hit hard by this.

Well I had no problem with my Amex, but I know they violated the rules
1. There was a min/max amount
and 2. there was a service fee.
But out of it, I got enough miles for a RT upgrade.

I do not believe this. Although it wasn't a dealership, I had experience with a business that wanted to charge a "convenience fee" to use a CC. I called VISA and told them about it and they said that business was out of line and they'd fix it. A couple days later when we went back to the business we were told that there had been a change of policy and they were no longer charging the convenience fee.

It is probably true that if the CC company does refuse to act, you would have no suit against the dealer, but probably would against the CC company. More importantly, if the CC company does not honor its contract with its members it will not stay in that competitive business for long. You pay an annual fee and risk interest and late fees, and in return should expect the CC company to keep its word. And no way would a dealer want to be told by VISA you have violated our terms of service, your right to accept VISA is revoked. For those reasons I think this talk about suits and who is a third-party beneficiary is all academic. The CC company would act, and the dealer would have to give you the negotiated price, and accept payment of the whole thing with VISA.

They are indeed in technical violation. Few people will report them, partly because the amounts involved are so small and partly because they tend to be owned by small businesspeople trying to make ends meet, support their families and provide jobs for a few more folks, while probably working a lot harder than most FTers. I tend to cut outfits like that a lot of slack, where I might feel differently about a larger organization.

I've bought motorcycles on charge cards--people do it all the time, since finance rates on motorcycle purchases are stupid high (like 16%). The general problem is that most cards have single purchase limits (typically $5k in my experience), so you'll initially get rejected and have to run it through twice or more to get the full amount, IF they allow it at all. Expect a call from your credit card security department. As mentioned, they always make you pay the extra 2.5% that they get charged for the transaction on the card. I'm too lazy to do the calculations, but I'd guess it'd be cheaper and easier to just buy the darn miles, heh.

Just bought a used Lexus 2 months ago.. paid $2000 on C.C. off total purchase price of $22,000, rest through financing� dealer did not state a maximum limit on c.c..

I now regret not attempting to put a larger deposit on my Amex when I bought my new car. Wonder whether there would have been any problems. This is in Australia though.

Costco doens't sell cars. They have a program where you can buy cars through the group buying department of dealers. Just think if you could stack a credit card bonus and the 2% (max $1000 a year) Costco Exec membership.

IMHO, you might have a good case against dealer, credit card issuer and Visa/MC/Amex. But, keep in mind that taking the card might cost the dealer 2% or so. Eventually, that cost, if lots of folks do it, will migrate to the selling price of the cars. Of course, most folks don't read FT.