pinniped

How about a contrary opinion, just because it's Sunday and I'm bored: I, for one, am thoroughly unexcited by the Virgin America FF program. Don't get me wrong: there are aspects of the product itself that sound interesting, and I hope VA is successful enough that they force other airlines to compete with them. But a program that has reduced itself to a straight-rebate type of program becomes less interesting and has fewer opportunities to maximize advantage for people like us, who pay attention to the various nuances of FF programs.

Plus, I don't see anything yet showing how (or if) VA links into the bigger Virgin program. To me, the big hook to flying Virgin America would be to score one of those sweet Upper Class tix to Europe. But if the programs aren't linked, then VA becomes more of a niche program like JetBlue or Southwest. Programs like that have their niche and their valid purpose - but neither is going to lure me away from Star or Oneworld.

Go ahead and flame me...I realize the rest of the FF universe is wholeheartedly geeked about Virgin America. Like I said, I'm glad the airline itself exists and is flying some key routes in the U.S., but I am not yet 100% sold on the FF program. (Although this didn't stop me from signing up the day the website went online. )

Kiwi Flyer

pinniped - have you checked out Virgin Blue's Velocity program? While linked to revenue, that is not a straight rebate program. I think eleVAte will be similar.

kanebear

No, the ones you should be mad at are people like me.... who pay for tickets in J/F... and earn miles and status on them... for less than you pay for coach. The truly wealthy are a diverse lot. Some don't know about points and miles, don't use credit cards, and buy the cheapest coach ticket they can get. Others buy J&F and don't care. Still more have their own planes and don't care. Regardless, they're all too busy earning money to fool with mileage redemption vagaries.

wanaflyforless

Not so fast.

Here is a stat from one of my many airline accounts. I signed up with AA in 2000. I passed the 2 million mark with AA in January.

Not one AA mile was earned from credit card spending.

I have redeemed almost all of my AA miles. Always at the saver level. Often for peak travel dates.

You probably make more money than I do.

KNOWLEDGE MAKES A DIFFERENCE.

- How to earn way more miles.
- How to find availability yourself before picking up the phone.
- What are all of the airlines/routes/connection possibilities I should check.

FT has been the primary source of my airline savvy.

Spending more time here is a good time investment if you care about your FF miles.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

By the way:
1) I would have to fly more than twice the trips on Virgin America than on UA/AA to get the same value back.
2) I would have to spend more than twice the $ on Virgin America versus AA/UA to get the same value back.

Status bonuses, promos, an in depth understanding of airline pricing allowing me to fly legacy airlines cheap, and knowing where the best rewards are and how to find the seats all contribute to this.

For someone who has invested enough time to really understand how to get the most from the legacy system, flying Virgin would be a stupid decision from a program standpoint. The product, on the other hand, might justify a loosing FF program.

pinniped

No, I haven't.

Perhaps I should hold out higher hope for Elevate. For one, because Virgin America can connect you to Virgin Atlantic, there's a possibility that they'll integrate those rewards into the program. Plus, maybe this is a bit of a longer reach, but now that Virgin is building a bit of a critical mass, maybe they'll even roll in Virgin Blue as well. (Still not sure how they'd get me to Australia to take advantage of awards there. )

And finally, if they can manage to keep the revenue element at least one layer below the surface - leaving opportunities for folks to redeem cool global awards without having to be in the top few percent spending-wise - then I can see some possibilities. After all, the hotel programs have been successful with this model. The earning side is somewhat tied to revenue, but the redemption side is a bit looser. And there are still promotions to take advantage of...

So I won't bury VA yet. I just want to see 'em flesh it out a bit...

itsme

wanaflyforless, the most commonly used metric for MRs is cpm, whether that is cents per EQM or cents per RDM. Little attention focuses on what is for some of us another important metric, that is EQM (or RDM) earned per hour of our time (efficiency). Do you weigh this metric when undertaking an MR, and if so, what do you set for yourself as a reasonable goal, e.g., 7.5K EQM in 24 hours, or 15K in that amount of time?

Marathon Man

I do 90%+ of my awared travel based on the use of cards and promos from the airlines. And if there's a scheme, I'm usually on it to grab more miles and feel all cool about it! I wrote in a few places in here how I think that's actually harder than being a business traveler who does not pay for the tickets but does get status and many miles for flights. They pay with their souls, though, because they must fly to survive and never see their own home for long periods of time. I do what I can to avoid paying marked up fees on miles and I HATE all fees of late that airlines charge to eat into my "free" travel. I spend a lot on credit cards. That's loyalty but it gets you not so far with the airlines because, well, they only get a small portion of that revenue, as it is often split amongst several partners involved in the process of giving me my one mile per $ spent, etc.

I dont really care what class of service I sit in the plane, but I do wish economy was not HORRIBLE, just normal. These days it can be horrible at times. Eatible food and water and coffee should be served for free in paid or award flights to everyone forced to breathe in recycled air for more than 90 mins. Period.

MM

Kiwi Flyer

Virgin Blue's subsidiary V Australia will fly between Australia and USA (and maybe elsewhere later). They are getting new longhaul a/c to do this.

wanaflyforless

I'm not sure how this thread relates to mileage runs, but: Yes, efficiency is a primary factor in planning MRs for me. RDM is my primary metric (EQM is mostly good for the ego!) and I would measure per day, not per hour, as I generally spend days in a row MRing. The RDM possible per day can be very different than per hour depending on schedules and length and comfort of the flights for sleep along the way. Other factors include if this is a product I like or want to try or would the trip be exciting. How much are the positioning costs, food costs (often minimal for me because I get enough food on my long flights), and hotel costs (again often free for me). A low cost per RDM alone does not make me want to do a MR; efficiency and a like of those flights has to be there. Earning multipliers are my friend!

I often earn 20K or 30K RDM per day.

Kiwi Flyer

I'm nowhere near as efficient as wannaflyforless but will often trade off a worse cost per mile in order to earn double or more miles within a day.

Jailer

If the sky is falling I better use up some of my affinity miles quick ‘cause AA won’t be able to fly in a vacuum.

btw, really well written and entertaining post, although it gores my ox.

Jailer

Of course, eyechip couldn't be talking about me...most my credit card spending goes to *wood and Hilton.

pinniped

See, you further prove eyechip's point!! Even if he manages to luck his way into the last award seat in a cabin full of wealthy fat-cat airline credit card users, he's gonna have nowhere to stay when he arrives because of all the SPG Amex users filling the hotels!

Well, at least he can sleep in his rental car. There is no Hertz Amex that I'm aware of.

Jailer

I recall getting the last car.

Better not mention Idine/Rewards Dining; not only are the fat cats getting fatter, but expense account paid gluttony pays ten miles per dollar while at the trough.

monitor

And I recall getting upgraded to the last first class seat on an airline that would never have given me status unless I had in my pocket the super-top-of-the-line unavailable-to-the-OP-at-any-reasonable-cost credit card.

Seems to me I also recall something similar about the last hotel room upgrade available to the concierge level.