Sometimes us liberals and you conservatives agree. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

sorry about the duplicate post

[This message has been edited by Soonerman (edited 02-13-2002).]

I wasn't referring to the contact info that they ask for. You are right and it is not mandatory. I have to imagine though that when they take the PP info for INS, they somehow retain it in their system.

Now I imagine that the system will not catch if you were to change PP #'s or even nationalities. What I do believe is that they will flag it if you "become" certain nationalities, or if you change the numbers quite frequently.

Fortunately, the original poster had the same name as his relative and would be using his own ID. As long as he didn't maintain a no. in his respective FF profile, they would have nothing to check his ID no. against, if they even chose to bother at all. Plus, he could easily hold more than one passport, etc., etc. i.e. an inefficient task probably not high on the list of things an agent is told to keep in check.

Also, as previously posted on this thread, unlike those that have only been able to offer their meager suppositions, my personal experience and the airlines' past precedent shows that they could give a rat's *ss who's number you use just as long as its the same name and the computer will accept it.

If they don't care, why should you? Let alone lose sleep. Talk about making a mtn out of a molehill.

I'm with ranles, PremEx, QuietLion, cactuspete, doc, Beckles, and Soonerman on this one.

And we've been round this track before; different venue, but same ethical lack:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum1/HTML/005916.html

Why wouldn't you provide contact information? When I travel, I love it when AA gives me a call to let me know my flight is canceled or there is some other problem. Getting rerouted the night before a flight when there's a problem has worked out a lot better for me than showing up at the airport and finding out you're stranded or you'll be waiting at the airport for a few hours to get put on another flight. It may not have happened to you yet, but it will happen eventually. Of course, it's your choice to do what you want, but I haven't been getting any telemarketing calls since AA has my contact information. In fact, I'd bet they have some privacy policy against doing that, which would get them in a lot of trouble for sharing the information. You can also write the airlines (or any other company) a letter and tell them they are not authorized to share your information or contact you for marketing purposes.


On another note, FYI here's what all airlines flying to the US are required to provide for pax and crew, according to the TSA:

SEC. 12. PASSENGER MANIFESTS.

Section 44909 is amended by adding at the end the following:

`(c) FLIGHTS IN FOREIGN AIR TRANSPORTATION TO THE UNITED STATES-

`(1) IN GENERAL- Not later than 60 days after the date of enactment of this subsection, the Under Secretary of Transportation for Security shall require each air carrier and foreign air carrier operating a passenger flight in foreign air transportation to the United States to provide to the Under Secretary by electronic transmission a passenger and crew manifest containing the information specified in subsection (b).

`(2) INFORMATION- A passenger and crew manifest for a flight required under paragraph (1) shall contain the following information:

`(A) The full name of each passenger and crew member.

`(B) The date of birth and citizenship of each passenger and crew member.

`(C) The sex of each passenger and crew member.

`(D) The passport number and country of issuance of each passenger and crew member if required for travel.

`(E) The United States visa number or resident alien card number of each passenger and crew member, as applicable.

`(F) The passenger name record of each passenger .

`(G) Such other information as the Under Secretary, by regulation, determines is reasonably necessary to ensure aviation safety.

d

If they indeed don't care, then I would think that that overrides their rules.

How about this angle - having your father fly with your elite benefits is detrimental to the rest of us.

If you achieve elite status, every time your father flies and uses that status there's the risk that another TRUE elite is going to be harmed in the process. The real elite may not get to fly in FC because your father was upgraded ahead of him or her. The real elite may not get on a standby flight because your father's phoney status put him ahead on the list. Meanwhile real elites would have to wait behind your father in the first class checkin line and at boarding during the elite preboarding.

Those of us who earned the status the old fashioned way, personally flying the amount required by the airlines, would be getting upstaged by your father (or you and your father if both of you were responsible for achieving a status level that you wouldn't have gotten by yourself).

So, is that fair to the rest of us? Personally, I like flying FC. Using electronic upgrades makes my flights more comfortable and since I have such good sucess in getting upgrades I'm more likely to fly. If I don't get upgrades as often as I do now, I'll probably decrease the amount of discretionary travel I do.

Of course, in the grand scheme of things, you father alone probably won't upset the balance of the FF system. But, don't think that individuals like us FTers won't be hurt in the process. Each time your father sits in a full first class cabin with an elite upgrade, there's probably a true elite sitting in coach who wanted that seat.

d

Same ethical lack?

Let's see, comparatively small company, who isn't hurting anyone, just tries to run a little promo and ends up getting taken to the cleaners by anyone who picks up on the loophole and chooses to blind themselves to the fact that their greediness will most probably contribute to the major hit this company will suffer.

Compare this to a big airline company that, as part of its business plan, figures out ways to perpetrate fraud on, and steal from, its customers, on a daily basis, hourly if possible, and it does this, while beknownst to them, a few people out there with the same name are combining miles for an amount of free flights that is less than the big airline company complimentary upgrades in a day. The big company isn't stupid and, as such, know of the loophole that exists but, perhaps to ease their guilty collective consious, or for a multitude of reasons, they have set a precendent that, in effect, announces to its agents, its customers, to all, that it's OKAY to use whatever number you want as long as the name matches.

And, what do you have to say about the elite in front of you that achieved status by challenges, by status comping from another airline, from comps from having a certain AM EX card, shall I go on? What about all these other people that aren't "TRUE" elites?

I think all you B&Ws need to just give it up.

Cblaisd PremEx Quietlion Beckles. . . . .

If you see a very cheap airfare to Europe and you know its a mistake, do you not buy it?

The gate agent forgets to collect your VIP certificate, do you turn it in?

You book a hotel online and it comes back with a 99cent rate, do you confirm the reservation?

You fly more segments then you have to so you can get more miles even though some airlines do not allow this in their rules?

Well, if I correctly take your implication that one would be a chump not to do any of the above, count me as a chump. I play by the rules, but optimize within the rules. I thought that was the whole idea of this forum.

I do not book fares or rates that I know or strongly suspect are mistakes, although I do take advantage of good deals which are offered--don't need the possible hassle. If someone forgets to collect my certificate, I DO volunteer it. My airline of choice, American, has no rules I'm aware of that require one to always seek out non-stop flights instead of legal connections.

There's no reason to lie or cheat in order to enjoy frequent flyer benefits. In fact, I think the whole game would become rather dreary and depressing if that's how one played it. After all, we're not a den of theives, are we?

The general lack of ethics exhibited by some on this thread is appalling. Have some accountability! Ethics has nothing to do with the size of the company on the other side of the transaction, or whether you can get awway with breaking the rules. In my book, there are no degrees of honesty - either you are or you aren't.

Hello? Again, if, by their actions and precendents, an entity saids that something is okay, then why on earth would you put someone down for going along with such a precedent?

None of this is for others to judge, for others to use as a tool (along with their handy dandy pop-up soapbox) to feel ethically superior, or whatever (I'm not a psychiatrist), it is for the airline to say, and, one more time, through their actions and precedents, they say its O-K-A-Y.

If anyone has any EXPERIENCE, has actually had an airline agent say more than, basically, "just tell me which number you want to use," which has been my personal factual EXPERIENCE, then I would love to read it here and will accept it that the airline is not pushing this unpublished benefit, if you will, of having the same name.

[This message has been edited by cactuspete (edited 02-14-2002).]