indeed, and I have a real problem shelling out double miles for something I know is less.

Now, I will agree that something should be done to "award" the savvy planner who thinks ahead for travel needs, and this person, whether intending to do it or not, is helping all of us by planning well in advance. But to make us pay say, 100,000 miles to fly on a trip that should be 50k is NOT good. All it's done is up the ante and now, like gas prices, we suddenly are sometimes "okay" with the increased cost and we find ourselves justifying it even as we complain about it.

Are you certain? I wonder if they just marketed to people who looked like travelers--business or not. I was a traveler in those days and also got the CCs to charge things and get more miles. But I was no business traveler when I was first heavily marketed to in those days and they had to know this. I did have all the cards and had joined all the programs, but I knew only pure flying would ever get me anywhere and for that, I'd have to chose one airline to concentrate on and gain my awards faster. When you finally did attain the award level, it was easy to get a free flight.

Sure it's never 100% "free" but it's all psychology marketing and it works.

In my opinion--and I think only starwood still does this--I think paying for the flight with a bunch of cash or a bunch of miles should be the same thing. With limited exceptions, you can call the hotel chain and book a room with either means.

This is how it should still be...Kind of like when you go to CVS stores and use cash or cash plus some coupons they gave you last time you shopped there. In fact, I have even used a combination of several coupons there and ended up being owed a buck or two!

How would the airlines accomplish this? Well, what we need is another marketing genius to surface that alters policy for the next 25 years!

Independence (DH) did that in their program and that's what most of the car rental and hotel companies do.

I think the important aspect here is what MM noted -- the currency had to be fake and not revenue-based in the beginning, but now that it's established most companies see that as a benefit to the employee and don't concern themselves with it. The others that came around afterward could be dollar-based going forward.

This is in no way a criticism of business travelers, but when they fly, their tickets are often not paid for by THEM, but the company they work for. Even if they use their own CC to pay for the tickets, the company reimburses them later and they get points AND status (for flying a lot and possibly ending up in F either because they have the miles and upgrades or because their company wants to better represent them)

But a leisure traveler pretty much buys tickets for themself, and possibly the whole family out of pocket until they happen to earn enough miles thru whatever means are available. On that one flight they have been saving up for, it is good to be able to actually use those miles!

problem: leisure travelers who do not otherwise fly business when not on vacations with the family dont get there fast enough.

Business travelers who fly so much they deserve to get good service and know exactly what to do in the world of flying are finding there are no seats available when they DO want to fly on vacations.

I like how there are many many ways to earn miles for everything I do. I like the airline malls (AA and NWA being my favorites) and I like CC use and promos. I even like all those pudding guy type gigs you find in stores on box tops.

The other problem is that there are no TOO many ways to earn miles and so we have an overflow when everyone comes to redeem them. We know this, but I personally would sacrifice some of that if it meant my miles could be used when I do reach award levels. And so, if it were up to me, I would taper down the means to earn while not forcing you to have to have activity every 18 months or you lose your miles, and I would disclose the availability of award seating. I still think some promos and credit card miles are as valid as anything else. Promos make for good loyalty and credit cards have always been around with mileage gigs. I would even have it so the airlines no longer give out miles for hotel or car. Instead they suggest that you join this or that hotel or car rental points program. This would generate partnership business for them and lessen the confusion and fine print fees and restrictions for us. As well, it would enable -- and promote the best use of those programs! For example, you fly AA and it has something or someone who says, "Well, we suggest you sign up now for the SPG program, sir. If you do, we give X for getting it now..." I dunno. Thoughts welcome on this one.

In otherwords, bring it back a few years and add in a few new age enhancements, but in some crafty way where it does not look like some restriction that the airlines are so famous for always announcing to us.

MM

I dont want to get OT but I understand the complaint about the mileage bump. The Airline directly controls the miles available and also the rates that are needed for redemption.

As for gasoline, its out of the oil companies hands. Not to say that they arent giddy when the world bids up oil futures and we see barrel prices at $60 and higher. But oil companies are going to pump that crude out of the ground whether they get $20 a barrel or $60. Which is directly opposite to how Airlines constrict or eliminate the "Saver" or as I call them the Normal mileage redemption rate.

Ken in Phx

ok Ken, I have read between the lines here and STILL cannot figure out all the cool mileage earning gift card schemes hidden in that post that you are REALLY talking about!

and by the way, you make a good point, mate.

FTers can figure this out for ourselves, but the airlines need to come up with a way to help encourage that sort of innovative thinking with the rest of the "unwashed masses."

The question is how to do that in a sufficiently proactive way as to help the customer with their planning of the trip. Something like the award search for availability between airports automatically, or with a prominant "switch" labeled "alternate routing search" that a customer can click on when availability doesn't exist in their preferred date. (Remember that lots of time-share/vacation club deals are weekend-to-weekend, so lots of people don't want to be that flexible in their time, as in arrive and leave mid-week. Recognize that and work with it to make life easier for the customer, and the customer will preferentially come to they who make their life easier.

Steve

Perhaps somewhat....but my guess is that the first persona they defined as a member of the target audience for U.S. airline marketing campaigns immediately post-deregulation was a white male in his 40's, upper-middle-class, married with kids, traveling extensively for business and occasionally taking the family on vacation. Not to say there weren't other personas/demographics: I'm just saying that in 1980 or so that was likely the most prominent one.

Clearly FFP marketing today is more complicated and seeks to reach a much more diverse audience.

OK, I'm kind of with you on Starwood, although I'm still a bit cranky about their recent devaluation. But anyway, the hotel programs evolved a bit after the airlines, and they did collectively take one step closer to linking their points to revenue. The earning side is revenue-based, but the redeeming side isn't. Culturally/ethically, we're all still okay with that - companies allow employees to keep their hotel points.

My only fear is that the new genius might develop a system that I can't exploit as much as this one. Let's face it: there's still a ton of room in the current system to achieve value simply by knowing the game well. By knowing how and where to look for award seats and routing, I'm still getting the seats I want to the places I want. (Granted, I avoid the peak tourist spots during peak seasons for many reasons including lack of award seats.)

Many airlines do give you more mileage for higher fares. For example, United gives you 150 percent of the actual mileage for Y and B fares.

Noted in post #15. The originating point is still not addressed in that the number of miles/points is not directly related to revenue, which allows me to earn 6000+ base miles on an $88 fare while while other people earn only 1000 and pay $350. And that's still not paying enough for that route to qualify as Y/B fare class, so there's no bonus.

But do the airlines really need to address this point? You represent a tiny fraction of 1% of all travelers. Probably 1 in 100,000 paid seats is occupied by a mileage runner. Maybe 1 in 100 is occupied by somebody who actually pays close attention to frequent-flier miles. By that I mean close enough to (a) notice good mileage-earning routings and take them, even when they aren't pure mileage runs and (b) pays enough attention to strategically use their miles in the best possible manner given their travel needs.

The airlines know a few people take mileage runs. They don't seem to mind it. Certainly, they could change the routing rules requirements and close the door on the best MR's. They could alter minimum-stay requirements and eliminate the "pure" MR (where the traveler doesn't even leave the airport). But they don't... Maybe it's because they know that anybody willing to MR must also be a fan, and killing off your own evangelists is counterproductive. (Only the RIAA has taken the approach that all of their fans are evil and must be alienated...oops...that's OMNI.)

Anyway, I'm not a pure mileage runner myself, but I pay close attention to how I earn & burn. I've loaded up on enough United bonuses and gone out of my way to "play" some of their promos to my advantage. But I also buy $339 walk-up one-way fares to Seattle on occasion, so they're making it up in the long run.

"Creative" financing = defrauding lenders.

"Creative" FF programs = defrauding members?

United offers weekly 'e-fares', usually deeply discounted fares that require travel within a short window and with a little advance notice, presumably on routings that have plenty of excess supply.

A logical and beneficial extension of 'e-fares' should be 'e-awards', the ability to redeem discounted awards (25-50% off) on targeted routes with excess seat inventory.

KLM's FFP and now its merged KLM/AF FFP offer 'Web Awards', whereby for a30-90 day window, certain routes allow award redemption for 50% in both Coach and Business cabins in many instances.

So, the precedent exists. Is it time for the US FFPs to emulate this customer-friendly strategy that doesn't hurt the FFPs or airlines bottom line?

CO (used to, I don't know about know) offer that scheme. Reduced miles (as few as 7500).

To some degree they do, at least with schemes that give higher fares more than 100% of miles flown. Many of these also count those bonus miles toward status.

Tying awards directly to revenue and fully to scale (e.g. $2,000 spent gets twice the benefits of $1,000) could cause a revolt with companies, which have fumed for many years that the programs add a big cost to them for a small benefit for employees. There's often a suspicion in big companies that some employees game the system, waiting to book late because they know that expensive Y ticket will probably get upgraded and have more miles. Large companies have tried before to get airlines to offer non-mileage-earning fares for a % discount.

I think the airlines really crossed over into pyramid-land with all the non-flying sales of miles in recent years.

I think the crunch will really hit when baby boomers retire (62 in 2008, 65 in 2011 and after). Lots of people who had to hoard miles during their careers will want to use them to travel in retirement, and that'll exacerbate current imbalances.

while it sooo should not be this interpretation of the word, you are so right!