I think the fatal flaw in recent approaches by USAir and Delta (with insULT fares) is this: It locks out any CHANCE of a domestic upgrade for elites. If you're on the "wrong" fare you can be certain of not getting to fly up front, even if they're flying empty seats there rather than upgrading you.

In an age where e-tickets are practically mandatory and computers track everything, doing it this way seems, well, stupid. If you're determined to upgrade based on revenue, then why not just program a new pecking order into your computers? Maybe someone with no status on close to a full-coach fare goes ahead of a gold member on the cheapest fare, but I think the important thing is: GIVE EVERYONE WITH STATUS A SHOT.

Otherwise the decision from the customer's perspective of whether to look for greener pastures becomes simple. If airline A locks you out 50% of the time and has you in the running 50%, and Airline B has you in the running 100%, it's tempting to go with B, even if A protests that you have a better shot on them the 50% of the time you're on the "right" fare.

And because FF programs both reward and demand loyalty, you can't expect to lock people out half the time based on fare and still get their business for the other half. They need to do those flights on the other airline to maintain their status there.

DL made that mistake with LUser and lost all the business from a number of leisure flyers. Maybe DL didn't think they were paying enough to deserve to fly up front, but the unintended consequence of that thinking was the loss of all their business, whether flying in front or in back. Maybe the lowest-fare "seatwarmers" aren't the most "preferred" customers, but they sure beat flying an empty seat.

Which is what US will get when all the medium- and low-revenue elites jump ship. The loss in business will exacerbate the downward spiral, taking with it the high-rev elites including those who resented the riff-raff who paid much less in fares getting upgraded.

Even if US rescinds the move quickly, the damage is already starting. And for them and Delta both, it's all so avoidable.

That's my spiel...flame away...

[This message has been edited by RustyC (edited 08-29-2002).]

What is wrong with F seats being empty?

In our FF rules, elite members get a certain # of upgrades. First, the fare from "L" became non-upgradeable. Then came the U-class fare. Originally Delta defended the move and stated that the domestic upgradeable fare, such as "K" class, could almost always be found for about $40(give/take $20) more/each way. With so many U-class fare internet offers, the K-class fare is much more than $40/each way.

I'm silver on DL and NW...and I think Rusty's point was this. On NW if I fail to get an upgrade, I know it's because first class is full...that's it.

On DL if I fail to get an upgrade, it may well be that the seat is empty, and I did not snag the upgrade because I didn't pay enough. That sets up a terrible psychology of..."do I deliberately pay a higher fare, just for the possibility of an upgrade?" That's simply bad business!

Which fares aren't upgradable on US?

I wouldn't call this a flame, but you obviously don't understand the changes US has made, because they've specifically said the changes have no affect on Preferred benefits, including upgrading the fares that are now further restricted in other ways (see FAQ on new changes). Those that can remain elite on US if the changes stay in place (God forbid) will actually benefit greatly from the thinning of the elite ranks, especially considering US is already one of the most generous in upgrade policies (for elites and general members).

Out of all the published fares, V-class fares on Transatlantic flights are the only nonupgradeable fares on US. They have one of the least restrictive upgrade programs of all the major US carriers.

Since Delta started the "L/U" policy, I have never failed to get an upgrade. Not once did I sit in coach. (This was at both PM and GM levels).

It is a boon to those who aren't flying at the lower fares.

As long as the rules are clear and adhered to, I can make an informed choice as to which airline gets my business. If I always flew on the lowest fare, I would probably use another airline.

While DL's policy does gall some of it's frequent flyers, I don't think it led to the mass exodus of Medallions that was predicted. As Opus put it, the "LUser", well now the "insULT" , policy is a boon to many of us. In many markets K's truly are not prohibitively expensive, and in some markets they're always the lowest available anyway.

I'd be willing to bet that we'd all better get used to it, because I have a feeling everyone else will follow DL's policy of not upgrading the lowest fares in the very near future. It saves the best perk of the elite status, upgrades, for those who pay a little more, but it also doesn't screw the very frequent low-fare flyer out of all of his benefits.

With US it's more like a time bomb...most people can guess whether or not their activity patterns give them a realistic chance for requalification under the new rules. Not only that, but how many times have we seen December roll around and people ask about a good mileage run on X airline to get them enough miles to put them over the top? Want to try that on your own dime in 2003 with the USAir fare restrictions?

It's bad business for US, especially as it gives people information to decide whether to stop flying them NOW. They run off the low-revs and medium-revs (even if they rescind the move I'd be too suspicious of management or worried about the airline's future). Meanwhile, they have nothing new that'd attract new customers to replace those. Is that really what you want to do in bankruptcy?

Maybe they could learn from CO, which had a disastrous management housecleaning in 1994, slashed OnePass benefits and launched "Lite," probably the closest any major airline has come in trying to imitate WN (FC seats taken out, drinks served from 2-liter bottles, etc.). It lasted about a year, after which they had another housecleaning and realized that they had to get all the FFers (not just high-revs) back.


[This message has been edited by RustyC (edited 08-30-2002).]

Quote:

Originally posted by RustyC:

why not just program a new pecking order into your computers? Maybe someone with no status on close to a full-coach fare goes ahead of a gold member on the cheapest fare, but I think the important thing is: GIVE EVERYONE WITH STATUS A SHOT.

Delta alredy does this at the gate standby for the upgrade is first Y and B fares by status, then no status then all others with a qualified fare by status.

I don't know what market you are referring to, but I randomly checked 15 markets and routes and did not find a single market where the difference was less than at least double the lowest fare.

Quite honestly, all you DL folks can keep your fare structure, and I hope you don't bring it to NW/CO.

I can live with changing the pecking order, but I will never agree that it is better to let a F seat go empty than give it to a low-fare paying elite member. If this policy changes, I am headed to MRTC at AA where I can take solace for not sitting in first.

[This message has been edited by Andrew14302 (edited 08-30-2002).]

Nothing if you are European. But let's get realistic, we aren't talking CS or SG first now. This is the DOMESTIC product of most american airlines. Who in their right mind would pay more than $20 or $30 for that privilege?

Based on a research group of 1 (me):
1997 DL PM; UA 1K
1998 DL PM; UA 1K
1999 DL PM; UA 1K

Implementation of No L Upgrades on DL
2000 DL GM (0 flights); UA 1K
2001 DL SM (0 flights); UA 1K
2002 DL __ (0 flights); UA 1K

Maybe I'm the only one not willing to buy a DL K fare at double the L fare just to gamble on the possibility of an upgrade. Many times since 1/1/2000, it was less expensive to buy the UA V, W or T fare and then pay for the 500-mile upgrade certs than it would have been to pay a DL K fare and gamble on getting a PM comp upgrade.

I have enough miles banked with DL and UA to cover my Hawaii and international travel for the next 10 years, so if UA pulls the same trick on V, W and T fares, my 1K will go the way of my PM and I'll wind up with a bundle of Rapid Rewards credits and a free WN companion ticket.

Air travel in the USA is a commodity, so my loyalty and out-of-pocket dollars (I pay for all of my tickets) go to whichever company is willing to give me the most for the least.

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