Well put

OK, terrific.

I think you are missing the point. No the Freddies themselves are not important in the grand scheme of things. What is important is the integrity of something (and someONE) that represents themselves as the best source of information about something that interests us all.

Let's say your child plays little league baseball. The coaches and umpires work with in a set of rules. Let's say your child plays a game in which their team wins the game. But after the game is over, the umpires and coaches tell you that they made a RETROACTIVE change in which certain runs were thrown out. Now it's just little league, right? What does it have to do with the grand scheme of things? Nothing... But all of a sudden it's darn important, huh?

The importance of the Freddies has nothing to do with it. What is at stake is the credibility of FlyerTalk, and Inside Flyer. Without credibility, we may be inclined to move to other sites (ITYT for one). We may be inclined to not renew our subscriptions to Inside Flyer, both moves would lead to reduced revenue from advertisers.

It's about being disappointed when your expectations are not met. It's about being told that the feedback of the members here counted, only to find out it only counted if it supported the outcome desired. That is what is important. Not the tarnished "Shreddie" award itself....

When does the benefit of the doubt expire and the blindfolds are removed? The Fraudies were five days ago and there hasn't been a single statement or an attempt an explanation for the dishonest behavior.

Meanwhile, activity on FlyerTalk and mass-purchasing of InsideFlyer only funds this operation.

Granted that I've only been on FT for about a year, but why all the blind faith in the organization? It's interesting to me that this is a community of very picky and relatively demanding individuals from airlines, hotels, car rental companies, credit card companies, etc. I frequently read about how user x will never fly airline y again because of minor incident z. However, this same community tolerates sub-standard service and dishonesty on a pretty regular basis.

I'm not trying to start flaming here again, but I think that it is interesting and something to think about.

------------------
daniel baker -- [email protected]
Reliable, fast, unmoderated, and unbiased forums at ITYT.

I guess, that I as a (www-) board-owner would just ignore members starting topics in capital letters (shouting) HEY at me ...

Same deal for the 10 or 15 other similar threads spread across the board, too, it would seem.

Here's the view from a New York point of view.

If you don't like it here, you can leave.

Now assumming the worst case here; lets say all you 'the fix was in for the freddies' people are right, YOU'RE the people that will bring this place down. And if that happens, the other 98% of us are gonna be really p*$$ed at you.

That's just my humble opinion.

Dan

I was present at the Freddies for the last 2 years and must say that they do serve a purpose that benefits all FT'ers. When you see companies like Starwood & SAS accept their awards, and count the large number of employees that they bring to the awards, it really makes you think that they care. There is a competitive spirit that exists at those firms and they really strive to provide great customer service and benefits. They are sincere in their effort to attract customers and to make us happy.

On the other hand, there are many major firms that don't give a hoot, and that is also reflected in the absence of their names from the ballots.

Randy does work hard on the Freddies and nobody is perfect. We should all take a chill pill, and wait for him to reply on this topic.

OK...But calling them the "FRAUDIES" sounds better! Ladies and Gentlemen the winner of Airline of the Year is ...............PAM AM!No lost luggage! ALWAYS on time! Treats every
flyer the same! Never an employee problem!
How can you beat that record ? :-)

Let me see if I understand what you are saying... Did you just say that although there may have been fraud in the tabulation of the votes for an award, and the award was to be given out on the basis of those votes, it doesn't matter to you? And if I don't like it, I can leave? Wow, the standards really have been lowered...

Hey if Randy wants to give the Fraudies to whatever company he wants, that's his decision. But when he advertises it to FT'ers and InsideFlyer subscribers as "selected by you, the voters", publishes the rules of the vote, and then changes the rules afterwards without notice, it's fraudulant, plain and simple. And everyday of silence that follows (we're at 5) lends credence to those of us who are disappointed with the way the "vote" was handled...

As I posted on a related thread:


[This message has been edited by cactuspete (edited 04-30-2002).]

How are the winners of the Freddies determined?

Each person who votes for the Freddies is also asked to rate their choice from 1-10. This allows travelers to not only choose the best program in nine different categories, but also rate their choices with 10 equating the highest score possible. Freddie winners are then chosen from those who score the highest average in delivering membership benefits and value. This is a change from the popular vote, which was used, in the first nine years of the presentation of the Freddie Awards. With the return of Value Voting, this year's voting will once again focus on quality and not quantity. How many votes a program receives does not matter, but the overall merits of what each program has to offer will determine the winners.

Statistics

26% of voters had voted in previous Freddie Awards
Votes cast for the Americas Freddies: 169,231
Votes cast for the International Freddies: 52,653
Total votes cast: 221,884 accounting for 3,128,564 individual choices
100% of the votes were cast via the Internet
18,419 suspect ballots were eliminated from voting
Ballots were subject to four audits before results were finalized

I think the tone of the multiple threads regarding process here is really much too accusatory. Several of us here have market research backgrounds and have commented in previous years that the instrument design leaves a lot to be desired. That being said, that comment is a far stretch from suggesting fraud. I think rather than fraud or intentional manipulation, it's more likely a case of inexperience in methodology and perhaps analysis limitation, given the confusing and limiting instrument design.

So while those of us experienced in this business might do it entirely differently, there is complete merit in the statement that if we don't like it, we should ignore it or move on. None of us were, after all, asked for professional input.

I don't dispute your right or instinct to question the methodology - I do dispute the necessity for the tone of the question.

I'll second that -- the questions might be valid, but the tone is waaaay out of line.

IF you PAY for Inside Flyer, you might have reason to gripe about the Freddies. In that case, there's still no reason to hurl a batch of accusations at Peterson and his business *before* you get his side of the story.

Subscribers of Inside Flyer who need to complain about the Freddies: The appropriate channel is through letters to the Inside Flyer editor, or - if your gripes aren't resolved after a reasonable time - through canceling your subscription.

BUT ... why would you go on a FREE Web site to throw mud on the host? It's absurd.

Personally, I can think of a few deficiencies with FlyerTalk -- ALL of us could find shortcomings with just about any Web site going. But the bottom line is, it's a GIFT, folks. And we all learned by third grade that you dont critique gifts - or slander the people who give 'em.

IMHO, this is symptomatic of the pushy, grasping, and ceaselessly dissatisfied attitude that seems to be dominating posts all over FT these days ... sometimes you'd think people write a bellyachin' post about every third flight and every fourth hotel stay they make. Makes me shudder to think what life is like on the other side of the Customer Service counter these days.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Don:

"Personally, I can think of a few deficiencies with FlyerTalk -- ALL of us could find shortcomings with just about any Web site going. But the bottom line is, it's a GIFT, folks. And we all learned by third grade that you dont critique gifts - or slander the people who give 'em."

Don raises an interesting point. I enjoy flyertalk. I find the trip reports to be an outstanding feature. The airline specific forums are a great aid to me, as are a number of the other forums. I do not, however, see FT as a one way gift.

The posts on FT comprise a tremendous resource of up to the minute real world experience and reporting on airlines and ff programs. I think FT is a valuable resource to us, AND to Inside Fyer - one which, it would seem to me to be hard to duplicate without IF having to incur other expenses or having to add staff. In a way, we are all stringers for Inside Fyler.

I do agree with Don that the tone of the questions into how the Freddies were selected should be civil and reasoned. I also agree with those who find genuine concern, based upon the information now available to us, regarding how the Freddies were handled. I look forward to Inside Flyer's explanation into the vote voiding issue.

I vote for dhammer53 and svpii.

rb - are you sure your vote will be counted?