Dear Flyertalk Community:

I have spent the past couple of days reading all the ff forums and trying to decide where I should focus my efforts.

I have 200k delta miles (credit card not MQM), 100k AA miles (credit card too) and 200k Amex membership rewards. I did not fly a lot last year, but I am going to start traveling again. I fly to NYC and Europe most often.

What is the best ff program now (in light of the recent changes)?


Thanks in advance.

C

what recent ff prog changes?.....where in europe will you be going? how often to nyc/europe? what do you want to get ug's, award tickets? what class will you be flying?....are you going on personal or company paid, if co, what are rules?

you'll get better answers by providing more info.....good luck

Thank you for taking an interest and helping me get clear.

The changes I referred to are with Delta's program. I fly NYC then France, Italy and/or Germany. I own my company so I pay for the travel, though the trips to NY are business. I will go to NY 4 times a year and to Europe 2 times. I like to buy a coach ticket and upgrade it to business class using miles. I really like Delta's business elite for that.

Thank you for any help you can give.

C

i only speak aa reasonably fluently.....

4 lax-nyc [w/o mr routing] is about 20k mi's....2 lax-europe is about 25k mi's...total is 5k short of middle tier elite on aa which is desirable for double flight mi's, better ug chances .... aa currently allows challenges for elite status...

if you use a mi earning cc for business expense, aa awards lifetime elite status [gold] for 1 million mi from all sources and for 2mm you get mid tier [plat]..

intl ug from almost all fares [be careful of o , q] are available w/ mi's and $250 / direction co pay...

any way, reading thru the forums will tell you more....good luck

For LAX-NYC, UA has the best product. So if you wanted to use miles or stickers for upgrades, this would be a good value, but you would only get upgraded part of the time.

AA and CO are also good options for LAX-NYC.

For international UA's international product is equal to or better than AA's - CO it better, but not good for upgrades (requires high fare and more miles).

AA allows upgrade for almost all fare classes international but charges a co-pay; UA restricts you to buy a higher fare class so you can upgrade, but no co-pay.

AA is slightly easier to upgrade LAX-NYC than UA. AA also charges less than UA for 500 miler upgrade "stickers" if you wanted to buy more to upgrade more so you could request an upgrade on all of your NYC trips.

I find Delta, Northwest, and US to have too many issues...not as quality as CO, UA, and AA. CO is harder to upgrade so that leaves you with AA and UA. UA has a slightly better product on your routes but AA is slightly easier to upgrade.

I'm primarily an AA guy, but as I understand it (from my limited but recent UA experience), LAX-NYC is a three-class service on UA, with the worst class being Economy Plus (a few inches better than most airlines' economy class).

So starting there, assuming you have to do so as a non-elite, wouldn't be too painful. Flying any airline as a non-elite sucks, but it isn't the end of the world if everybody's in E+ from the beginning. A couple of roundtrips and you're elite anyway. Then you can upgrade to J at least occasionally, although I suspect LAX-NYC is full of high elites no matter who you fly.

So looking at the worst case scenario, my Y trips, I think UA has the edge on this one.

Since NY/Newark is a hub for CO, I think it is your best choice if your travels take you to NYC first and then to Europe. Newark is far easier to commute from/to then JFK if your ultimate destination is Manhattan, especially during rush hour (take the train from the aiport to Penn Station).

Domestically, CO also offers you free upgrades (no miles or stickers) if you are an elite and there is space available. Usually first come first served based on elite status.

Finally, CO offers the largest number of non-stop flights to Europe out of the greater NY area. You can fly from Newark to London, Paris, Rome or any of 20 other destinations non-stop. The only downside is complementary international upgrades never occur even as a top tier elite (i.e. like UA's systemwide upgrade certs). You can always upgrade using miles, but eligible fares are restricted.

Disclosure: I have previously earned CO Platinum, UA premier executive and currently hold AA Gold. My traveling days have been quite reduced since I moved west.

Exactly. Internationally, CO requires very high fares/copay/more miles than the competition. Basically, CO is not a good carrier for the traveller trying to travel cheap and upgrade.

As I addressed above, CO does not give very many free upgrades to silvers/golds flying LAX-EWR. Even Plats have a hard time on this route. On some routes your advice would be more applicable.

....As long as you don't plan on redeeming miles for awards on CO. CO is known for having the worst 'saver" award availability of the major FF programs.

Welcome to FT. Like you, I am also an IBO ^ Nice to see there are a few of us around, as I think our prespective on MR's, FF miles, points, etc. is a bit different than others.

Here's the strategy I currently use:

1. For anything in the Lower 48 US I fly Southwest Airlines. This is mainly so that I can get Rapid Rewards flights to Las Vegas. I also use their Visa CC for most purchases as this adds quickly to the accrual of Rapid Rewards. However, I am centrally located in the US, so about three hours + is the max that I have to suffer in coach on WN. In your case, you may not want to suffer coach from L.A. to NYC.

2. For flights trans-Atlantic I generally use AirFrance, business class, and bank the miles on my Delta SkyMiles account. At CDG I loiter for a day or two and then proceed on to Africa or the Middle East, again on AirFrance business class, banking on the SkyMiles account. I have Petroleum Club status on AF, which adds a few minor bennies.

3. For trans-Pacific I fly Singapore Airlines and bank the miles on KrisFlyer. I will usually fly to L.A., or S.F., on WN, loiter there for a day or two, and then fly SQ to SIN and transfer from there for intra-regional travel on other SQ flights.

4. For redemptions, other than the Las Vegas WN flights which are solely for party purposes, I use my other redemptions for what I call the "LevRev Mileage Run", which I'll explain as some future time when I don't sense a pile-on from posting.

5. I purchased a CO President's Club membership though I seldom fly CO. I use the membership mainly for the IAH lounge.

Good luck and have fun!

M8

Great...but I don't see how this pertains to mileage runs. With his planned travel, he should be able to make mid-tier without any mileage runs...with good planning banking in a single program.

Just so you know, an objective comparison of Southwest earning verses UA/AA for LAX-JFK.

AA/UA 2475 miles outbound + 2475 return x 2 status bonus + online booking = 10,900 miles earned per round trip.

5 round trips = 53,600 miles earned
50K miles earned = 1 unrestricted free domestic round trip or 2 restricted round trips on AA/UA

Southwest 1 credit earned each way. 2 credits per round trip. Maybe 3 credits if there is a current promo. I will be generous and use 3 credits.

6 round trips on Southwest = 18 credits
16 credits = 1 free restricted round trip

Results: You earn at least twice as much on UA/AA.

This is not taking other things into account, like the fact you could be upgraded part of the time for free on AA/UA, or that UA only has economy plus seating on this route: it is a special route for UA, with an international business/first quality product in the premium cabins.

If you choose Southwest, know you are choosing them only for their cheaper last minute fares; not for their program. Their program/product does not compare!

The OP was asking who has the best FF program.


I would only recommend AF to someone who goes to/from Africa and the Middle East a lot...because AF has better coverage of Africa than anyone else. But this does not pertain to the OP! If you are deciding based on routes served directly, the OP will not be better served to his/her destinations on AF. If deciding based product, AF does not have the best transatlantic J product available. BA does. If deciding based on upgrade possibilities, AF is terrible and UA/AA win.


This one sounds like an excellent choice for you, as you must be deciding based on product (not wanting to upgrade often), and SQ has one of the best transpacific products. But this does not pertain to the OP!


I attempted to respond based on what would be best for the OP considering what the OP stated they were looking for; not what works best for me with what I am looking for.

Because a lot of us who are IBOs [independent business operators] use our miles to reinvest in our businesses, there are some very creative ways to do this that can generate significant business profits for us, and at the same time provide a virtually tax free vacation.

Oh! I strongly disagree! WN restictions are only on a few days of the year, like Dec 25, etc. on Rapid Rewards tickets. And the more important thing is that the seats are always available. This is not the case with UA/AA because they don't release all seats for redemptions. The worth of $/mile means nothing if there is no seat available.

Also, UA/AA are either bankrupt or teetering on such. In addition WN fares are not only cheaper for last minute fares, but their advanced purchases tend to be cheaper.

They have a better program, and as an airline are way more profitable.

Well we don't exactly know what the OP wants to do with regards to redemptions. Whether for US domestic, trans-Atlantic or trans-Pacific vacations. Do we? We also don't know how much the OP flys in the domestic market, in addition to flying to Europe with transfer at NYC airports. Hence I can only post what I do, and perhaps the OP can extract from that what is applicable to the OP's individual case.
Same response as above.

BTW, very well thought out and written response

Cheers,

M8

True...but the OP did say they like using their miles to upgrade transatlantic, so I was trying to point out the best way to do this. If they use a different program for domestic than transatlantic they will not make mid-tier status with one program, and thus not double their earning potential.

You are aware of this, right? "Awards issued on or after February 10, 2006 will have seat restrictions."

In my above post, I did not just state UA/AA were better programs. Rather I mathematically demonstrated how someone can get an unrestricted (=every seat available) ticket on UA/AA for less round trips than on Southwest (on the applicable route). Or two restricted round trips for the same miles. All Southwest offers now are restricted round trips; gone are the days of "all seats for redemption."

Please show me the math that supports this assertion (using the relevant city pair). Sample dates: March 27-31
Southwest.com $436.70...all ATA code share connecting in CHI.
AA or UA both offer non stops for $369 at ideal business times.

True that Southwest turns a profit. How does this benefit the consumer? Southwest takes more from the traveller than it spends on its product; AA/UA don't.

One possible reason for their difference in operating costs would be the amount they spend on a superior product. If the revenue were equal and one spent more on a better product offering, it could affect profits. Profits don't help flyers; only investors. AA/UA are not going to cease service in the next year, so who turns a profit should not be a consideration here.

Southwest's program is very uncompetitive when it comes to trans-cons. If you disagree, please show me where my math is wrong.

Martinis at 8, I respect your opinions, even if you are wrong.

I'm a newbie so I'm hardly one to give advice... but why not have FF program with CO and use CO for their hub, while using the benefits of AA for things like upgrades when flying internationally, etc.

I mean earning AA miles while using CO is a pretty sweet deal, although I guess you do lose the online booking bonus.

And you were correct to do so. But my rationale still applies since we don't know the OP's entire requirements for flying domestically or vacation desires. Your approach is to try and solve the OP's problem, my approach is to simply say what I do, and let the OP pick from that which is applicable to his/her situation. From a simple post one can not infer all required information IMO, so I just post my strategy. Your approach to answering, offerring a solution, is of course equally valid ^

In practice it has amounted to nothing. The seats are always available, such is not the case with major carriers. Just perusing through FT one can see that the major carriers just don't open their seats. SQ being the exception. WN seats are always there.
And I have no doubt that your math is correct. However, if there are no seats for redemption, then it's a no-joy situation.
Let's fly tomorow. LAX-LGA, and return the day after tomorrow. WN $634.70, UA Coach $748.70
No. UA is not bankrupt because they are sacrificing their profits to give the passengers a better product. They are bankrupt because they are poorly managed, as are most major US carriers. AA, DL, NW, and this list goes on and on. They also pine, whine, and snivel to the government for help. They suffer from the same disease as Detroit automobile manufacturers. In fact they give their management bonuses while in bankruptcy. Go figure.

Math has been shown with the fare example of LAX-LGA. WN is cheaper, and it is cheaper overall, if all cases are agglomerated. Better run businesses offer cheaper goods/services for their customers and are proftiable. That's just basic business principles, and is axiomatic - like the law of gravity.
Thank you. I respect yours too. That example you showed me in the background is just awesome! ^