Thinking about switching - need advice!
#1
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Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Greener Pastures
Posts: 10,515
Thinking about switching - need advice!
So, I recently switched jobs in my company & will be traveling next year - a lot. In the next 3 weeks, I've got 3 trips & I'm going to be averaging about a trip a week (some weeks I may hit 2 locations in one trip) for the next two years. I am DC based (can fly out of either IAD or DCA - avoiding BWI like the plague though) and my company's preferred carriers are AA/UA/DL & BA - however, all my flights will be domestic, so the BA factor doesn't matter to me.
I've already got NW Plat earned for next year, US Silver (and may hit gold, but not too concerned about it) earned for next year, and was comped to UA PremEx (unsolicited comp - got a letter in the mail from them 3 weeks ago welcoming me to PremEx due to my position within my company - but I think that was accidental - but that's another story for another time). My current levels of status with all airline, rental car, and hotels have all been due to personal travel. With my job change, I'm going to have less opportunity for personal travel (I take a lot of vacations - and with the new job, it'll be harder to take those same types of vacations).
So, for business travel, I'm supposed to book directly with Cliqbook (Carlson Wagonlit) & it recommends AA/UA/DL flights in order of pricing. The system will allow me to pick any carrier I want & will log my choices that are not within the company travel policy. The things that will trigger it logging my choices are:
1) Flying a non-preferred carrier
2) Choosing a fare that's more than $125 than the least logical fare
I am allowed to pick any carrier I want - I am asked for a reason to back it up though. Reasons include things such as flight schedules, airport choice, lower price, flight connections, etc - so there is a little wiggle room - Also, I can sort of manipulate the system to an extent with my queries by doing queries on ITA and finding out when NW (my preferred carrier since I get upgraded on them & I have a lot of miles on them) is priced the best & then using those parameters on Cliqbook so those flights come up as logical exceptions. However, for all the recent searches I've done, AA & UA seem to be coming up with the best prices. I don't know what the reprecussions are if I don't follow travel policies, but I imagine that initially it will just be a stern talking too - my trips aren't paid for by my department - I expense them to another department, so I've never even met the guy that approves my expense reports. I usually will have less than a 2-week booking window for business flights.
I enjoy getting the elite upgrades on NW & DL won't comp me to plat based on my NW status. In DC, there are so many UA upper level elites that I'm not sure that I'll ever get upgraded & they also fly a lot of RJs out of here. Although, E+ isn't really a bad way to fly at all. As for AA, I literally know nothing about their program & am not sure how their UG system even works. I could continue to fly on UA or DL & earn on US/NW, but I'll pretty much never be up front.
So, that makes me think I should switch - I doubt I'll fly more than 50-75K as all my flights are domestics (about 40% east coast, 30% midcons, & 30% transcons) for business & probably not more than 25K for personal next year given my job change. In theory, I could attempt to earn on segments too - If I fly AA, then every trip will be about 4 segments - if I fly UA, then it'll be between 2-4 segments, and if I break policy & continue to try to force NW, it'd be 4 segments as well. So, that's an option.
Any suggestions as to what my best steps would be for a DC based business traveler - I know that UA's the logical choice since I'm already a PremEx through 2007 & they've got a strong program - however, I feel hesitant because I used to be a Premier & felt that was nothing special (25% mileage bonus? Give me a break - everyone else is 50%!) about it & that since there were so many DC based elites, that the upgrades never came & the only benefit was E+ access, which they sell now, so its not even that great of a benefit. I will say though, that UA's got the best redemptions though for premium cabin int'l travel - between them & NW anyways...not sure about AA.
Thanks!
I've already got NW Plat earned for next year, US Silver (and may hit gold, but not too concerned about it) earned for next year, and was comped to UA PremEx (unsolicited comp - got a letter in the mail from them 3 weeks ago welcoming me to PremEx due to my position within my company - but I think that was accidental - but that's another story for another time). My current levels of status with all airline, rental car, and hotels have all been due to personal travel. With my job change, I'm going to have less opportunity for personal travel (I take a lot of vacations - and with the new job, it'll be harder to take those same types of vacations).
So, for business travel, I'm supposed to book directly with Cliqbook (Carlson Wagonlit) & it recommends AA/UA/DL flights in order of pricing. The system will allow me to pick any carrier I want & will log my choices that are not within the company travel policy. The things that will trigger it logging my choices are:
1) Flying a non-preferred carrier
2) Choosing a fare that's more than $125 than the least logical fare
I am allowed to pick any carrier I want - I am asked for a reason to back it up though. Reasons include things such as flight schedules, airport choice, lower price, flight connections, etc - so there is a little wiggle room - Also, I can sort of manipulate the system to an extent with my queries by doing queries on ITA and finding out when NW (my preferred carrier since I get upgraded on them & I have a lot of miles on them) is priced the best & then using those parameters on Cliqbook so those flights come up as logical exceptions. However, for all the recent searches I've done, AA & UA seem to be coming up with the best prices. I don't know what the reprecussions are if I don't follow travel policies, but I imagine that initially it will just be a stern talking too - my trips aren't paid for by my department - I expense them to another department, so I've never even met the guy that approves my expense reports. I usually will have less than a 2-week booking window for business flights.
I enjoy getting the elite upgrades on NW & DL won't comp me to plat based on my NW status. In DC, there are so many UA upper level elites that I'm not sure that I'll ever get upgraded & they also fly a lot of RJs out of here. Although, E+ isn't really a bad way to fly at all. As for AA, I literally know nothing about their program & am not sure how their UG system even works. I could continue to fly on UA or DL & earn on US/NW, but I'll pretty much never be up front.
So, that makes me think I should switch - I doubt I'll fly more than 50-75K as all my flights are domestics (about 40% east coast, 30% midcons, & 30% transcons) for business & probably not more than 25K for personal next year given my job change. In theory, I could attempt to earn on segments too - If I fly AA, then every trip will be about 4 segments - if I fly UA, then it'll be between 2-4 segments, and if I break policy & continue to try to force NW, it'd be 4 segments as well. So, that's an option.
Any suggestions as to what my best steps would be for a DC based business traveler - I know that UA's the logical choice since I'm already a PremEx through 2007 & they've got a strong program - however, I feel hesitant because I used to be a Premier & felt that was nothing special (25% mileage bonus? Give me a break - everyone else is 50%!) about it & that since there were so many DC based elites, that the upgrades never came & the only benefit was E+ access, which they sell now, so its not even that great of a benefit. I will say though, that UA's got the best redemptions though for premium cabin int'l travel - between them & NW anyways...not sure about AA.
Thanks!
#2
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: DTW/FNT
Programs: Delta (nee NW), Hilton Diamond. IHG (PT)
Posts: 4,823
I would work it backwards -- start with where you have to fly to and then see who has the best schedules/times etc.
DC is the end of almost everyone's spokes and not a hub like say ORD, CVG, EWR, DTW etc.
Bob H
DC is the end of almost everyone's spokes and not a hub like say ORD, CVG, EWR, DTW etc.
Bob H
#3
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Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Greener Pastures
Posts: 10,515
I'm not too concerned (at this point anyways) with the best schedules & times & connections - I've been a NW flyer from DC for quite some time now & am used to crappy schedules & multiple connections. As for my locations - it's all over the place - here's what I have on the books for next year already:
SEA
SJC
MBS
BHM
CLT
YYT
DEN
VPS
MLB
SAN
SGU
CVN
PNF
RSW
MCE
GPT
MCO
JLN
YHM
ONT
RDD
CWA
JAX
MTO
PRC
ORF
CDC
TYS
EWR
SAC
PIT
BOI
ATL
DAY
MEM
DTW
GRR
AUS
OMA
BFL
RDU
BUF
BOZ
IDA
PBI
ICT
YVR
SFO
Some cities will be visited more than once - and some cities will require that I fly to a larger airport - for example, I'm heading to SLN (Salina, KS) in 2 weeks, but only US serves it & its expensive as hell, so I'm going to fly to ICT instead - there are a bunch others that haven't been determined yet.
I guess I'm more concerned about between AA & UA, which would be a more fruitful program for me to be a member of from DC (i.e. which would have potentially better upgrades & more mileage opportunity - I'm guessing UA for the miles, but AA for the upgrades?)
SEA
SJC
MBS
BHM
CLT
YYT
DEN
VPS
MLB
SAN
SGU
CVN
PNF
RSW
MCE
GPT
MCO
JLN
YHM
ONT
RDD
CWA
JAX
MTO
PRC
ORF
CDC
TYS
EWR
SAC
PIT
BOI
ATL
DAY
MEM
DTW
GRR
AUS
OMA
BFL
RDU
BUF
BOZ
IDA
PBI
ICT
YVR
SFO
Some cities will be visited more than once - and some cities will require that I fly to a larger airport - for example, I'm heading to SLN (Salina, KS) in 2 weeks, but only US serves it & its expensive as hell, so I'm going to fly to ICT instead - there are a bunch others that haven't been determined yet.
I guess I'm more concerned about between AA & UA, which would be a more fruitful program for me to be a member of from DC (i.e. which would have potentially better upgrades & more mileage opportunity - I'm guessing UA for the miles, but AA for the upgrades?)
#4
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Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: STL
Programs: AA 2MM, AS MVP Gold, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 12,966
Originally Posted by bhatnasx
As for AA, I literally know nothing about their program & am not sure how their UG system even works.
flight of 1235 miles would require 3 stickers (so would a flight of 1550 miles, as they give you 50 miles leeway). Gold and Platinum members earn 4 stickers for each 10000 miles that they fly. Executive Platinum members neither earn nor use stickers - they get all their flights upgraded (space available) for free. Exec. Plat. upgrades can clear at 100 hours before the flight, Plat. at 72 hours, and Gold at 24 hours, so the higher your level, the better your chances.
AA does not normally comp elite status (unless your employer's travel department can arrange it for you - it's not something you can do for yourself). You can earn elite status on either miles or points. Each flight will earn both. Mile earned equal miles flown (but 500 minimum per flight). Points are earned as a multiple of miles depending on fare. First, Business, and full-fare coach earn 1.5 points per mile flown, discount coach 1.0, and deep discount coach 0.5, and again a minimum of 500 points per flight. If you earn either 25,000 points or miles in a year you qualify for Gold, 50,000 = Platinum, and 100,000 = EXP.
Instead of status comps, AA offers "challenges" that are a fast track to status. Challenges operate on points only. 5,000 points in any 90 day period will get you Gold, and 10,000 points will get you Platinum. There is no challenge for Executive Platinum - you have to get that the "old fashioned way" - butt in seat.
This is, of course, just an overview. If you have any specific questions, I would be glad to try to answer them.
#5
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gemac,
Thanks for the informative overview of AA - sounds like UA may be more ideal given the fact that they've already comped me status without asking for it. AA would be easy enough to attain though for Platinum, however, it seems like Exec Platinum would be the ideal level, but similar to UA1K, it would be most likely an unattainable goal.
Thanks for the informative overview of AA - sounds like UA may be more ideal given the fact that they've already comped me status without asking for it. AA would be easy enough to attain though for Platinum, however, it seems like Exec Platinum would be the ideal level, but similar to UA1K, it would be most likely an unattainable goal.
#6


Join Date: May 2001
Location: IAD
Posts: 6,452
Originally Posted by bhatnasx
Some cities will be visited more than once - and some cities will require that I fly to a larger airport - for example, I'm heading to SLN (Salina, KS) in 2 weeks, but only US serves it & its expensive as hell, so I'm going to fly to ICT instead - there are a bunch others that haven't been determined yet.
Could you get 1K if you credited everything on US to UA?
#7
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Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: STL
Programs: AA 2MM, AS MVP Gold, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 12,966
Originally Posted by bhatnasx
gemac,
Thanks for the informative overview of AA - sounds like UA may be more ideal given the fact that they've already comped me status without asking for it. AA would be easy enough to attain though for Platinum, however, it seems like Exec Platinum would be the ideal level, but similar to UA1K, it would be most likely an unattainable goal.
Thanks for the informative overview of AA - sounds like UA may be more ideal given the fact that they've already comped me status without asking for it. AA would be easy enough to attain though for Platinum, however, it seems like Exec Platinum would be the ideal level, but similar to UA1K, it would be most likely an unattainable goal.
Friends that I have had that travel as much as it appears you will never want to travel on vacation - they want to sleep in their own bed for a change. They end up using their miles to upgrade and to get award tickets as gifts for friends or relatives.
It appears to me that you would have plenty of miles to make top tier. It only takes an average of 2000 miles per week. If you fly every week, that is a minimum of 1,000 miles per week, and any of those west coast flights would get you 5,000 miles.
#8
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: DTW/FNT
Programs: Delta (nee NW), Hilton Diamond. IHG (PT)
Posts: 4,823
Originally Posted by bhatnasx
gemac,
Thanks for the informative overview of AA - sounds like UA may be more ideal given the fact that they've already comped me status without asking for it. AA would be easy enough to attain though for Platinum, however, it seems like Exec Platinum would be the ideal level, but similar to UA1K, it would be most likely an unattainable goal.
Thanks for the informative overview of AA - sounds like UA may be more ideal given the fact that they've already comped me status without asking for it. AA would be easy enough to attain though for Platinum, however, it seems like Exec Platinum would be the ideal level, but similar to UA1K, it would be most likely an unattainable goal.
Bob H
Last edited by BobH; Dec 6, 2005 at 11:07 am
#9
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Posts: 10,515
Originally Posted by whlinder
Midwest flies to Salina, the MCI-SLN leg is operated by a US regional carrier, but YX codeshares on it and will sell you DCA-SLN.
Could you get 1K if you credited everything on US to UA?
Could you get 1K if you credited everything on US to UA?
#10
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Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Greener Pastures
Posts: 10,515
Originally Posted by gemac
One strategy would be to be on the lookout for a good Platinum challenge opportunity - Coast to coast should flights raise this possibility. I note that your first two trips are SEA and SJC. Do a Platinum challenge, and then you will have a year to compare UA and AA, see which airline you like better, and which one has schedules that work better for you.
Friends that I have had that travel as much as it appears you will never want to travel on vacation - they want to sleep in their own bed for a change. They end up using their miles to upgrade and to get award tickets as gifts for friends or relatives.
It appears to me that you would have plenty of miles to make top tier. It only takes an average of 2000 miles per week. If you fly every week, that is a minimum of 1,000 miles per week, and any of those west coast flights would get you 5,000 miles.
Friends that I have had that travel as much as it appears you will never want to travel on vacation - they want to sleep in their own bed for a change. They end up using their miles to upgrade and to get award tickets as gifts for friends or relatives.
It appears to me that you would have plenty of miles to make top tier. It only takes an average of 2000 miles per week. If you fly every week, that is a minimum of 1,000 miles per week, and any of those west coast flights would get you 5,000 miles.
#11
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Join Date: Feb 2003
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Posts: 10,515
Originally Posted by BobH
The next issue to think about is whether you're going to be taking Metro to DC a lot --- if so that would move NW a bit down on my list of carriers -- if only because of the distance from the Metro station to the NW gates -- it's something like a 10 - 15 minute walk and while there are shuttle buses, they can take just as long.
Bob H
Bob H
#12
Join Date: May 2004
Location: LAX
Programs: CO Platinum HHonors Diamond Avis President's Club
Posts: 2,312
Just be awAAre..
Well, I'm sure you've done your research on the programs and primarily asking about domestic upgrades, but I think this is worth mentioning in case it isn't already on your radar.
If you're considering accruing on AA, then be aware of the wicked "copay" involved with redeeming your hard earned miles for upgrade internationally. It'll sure be a hit on your wallet that you're not used to taking for burning some miles on a intl-upgrade, amigo. It is the biggest downside to AAdvantage in my opinion, but since your travel patterns will be changing, I'm not sure how much you'll really care about this.
Upgrades From Most Discount Economy (Copay doesn't apply if you're flying Y or J):
North America to (Southern S America) 25,000 + $250
North America to Japan / Northern China 25,000 + $250
North America to Europe 25,000 + $250
North America to India 40,000 + $250
That is for each way. So a RT to Europe in business class would cost you your discount coach fare + $500 + 50,000 miles.
At least those eVIPs (sticker upgrades) don't require copays. Yet.
peace,
~Ben~
PS> Good luck with the new position!
If you're considering accruing on AA, then be aware of the wicked "copay" involved with redeeming your hard earned miles for upgrade internationally. It'll sure be a hit on your wallet that you're not used to taking for burning some miles on a intl-upgrade, amigo. It is the biggest downside to AAdvantage in my opinion, but since your travel patterns will be changing, I'm not sure how much you'll really care about this.
Upgrades From Most Discount Economy (Copay doesn't apply if you're flying Y or J):
North America to (Southern S America) 25,000 + $250
North America to Japan / Northern China 25,000 + $250
North America to Europe 25,000 + $250
North America to India 40,000 + $250
That is for each way. So a RT to Europe in business class would cost you your discount coach fare + $500 + 50,000 miles.
At least those eVIPs (sticker upgrades) don't require copays. Yet.
peace,
~Ben~
PS> Good luck with the new position!
#13
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,077
What I do in determining what to do is work backwards from:
a) what I want out of the frequent flyer program: awards for which class/routes; upgrades for which classes/routes; lounge benefit possibilities; etc.
AND
b) what can I achieve given my work/leisure travel needs, ticket fare/class mix, etc.
Then after answering those questions and a few more, I decide which programs make the most sense given my answers to those questions.
a) what I want out of the frequent flyer program: awards for which class/routes; upgrades for which classes/routes; lounge benefit possibilities; etc.
AND
b) what can I achieve given my work/leisure travel needs, ticket fare/class mix, etc.
Then after answering those questions and a few more, I decide which programs make the most sense given my answers to those questions.
#14
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Posts: 102,077
I'd do the AA Plat Challenge in any event; and if you can think of pulling off 100k miles or points -- points on higher fares are 1.5 points/actual mile travelled -- then I'd aim for EXP. However, if EXP is not readily achievable, I'd diversify and put my eggs in at least two baskets. (And also keep in mind the geographic benefits of using foreign frequent flyer programs and/or basing an account in an easy-to-achieve-status country for one of those programs.)
#15
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: MHT/BOS <--> World
Programs: AA Plat 2.8MM
Posts: 4,629
Originally Posted by seoulmanjr
If you're considering accruing on AA, then be aware of the wicked "copay" involved with redeeming your hard earned miles for upgrade internationally.
For domestic:
- AA and UA upgades work about the same for mid-tier - except AA only costs $25 per 500 miles and UA cost more, $40?
- UA has E+; AA doesn't
- UA and AA have similar premium products on most domestic routes
- You would probably have less upgrade competition to the ORD on AA
- Of the three preferred carriers, only DL has free upgrades for mid-tier
- If you make 1K, you would have top upgrade priority, earn free region 1 domestic advance confirmed upgrades, and enough SWU to trade with other FTers if wanted to to upgrade all of your longer UA trips ahead of time

