Just heard on NPR, the terrorists made many runs on those flights, to determine loads, figure out crew procedures, test security, etc.

Till now I was thinking, well, they'll never profile me, I'm a loyal frequent flyer. Now it seems we may come under scrutiny. (nothing was actually said about this, I'm just speculating).

Tiger, assuming that nothing will be the same, it is highly likely that all FF's will be profiled. Actually, I couldn't care less. I have nothing to hide. I had an easy flight last night, DFW -TPA on AA. Lonely, no one chatting. Beverage carts kept in front of the cockpit door most of the flight.

Limited service of alcohol. You had to really nag to get a refill. I had to fly to get my sea legs back. Tomorrow will be easier.

You're probably OK until they implement national ID cards to track our every move.

I actually like the idea of a national ID card. In my country of origin, Germany, we all had them. I've got nothing to hide either.

Nobbi

Oh, good, let's start gassing Jews again. Hitler didn't finish all of 'em off. That's what they did in Germany, so it must be OK, right?

Why don't YOU go BACK to Germany if you think it's so great over there, instead of trashing the U.S. Constitution!

Allowing broad surveillence and tracking under with the rationalization of "i've got nothing to hide" is foolish.

Here in the U.S., our country's government has been founded on the idea that the people control the government, not the other way around. Although no normal person wants to make crime an easier thing to get away with, giving up our personal freedoms and privacy in exchange for some real or imagined additional security is VERY dangerous. It starts us down a road that leads to somewhere we don't want to be.

And what is the big taboo thing with national id cards? many many many other civilized western countries use them. this is one of theose things that people do much about nothing in the us.

at the end, people in the usa have to end up resorting to having to use drivers' licenses as an id, and if they do not know how to drive then get to their state mvd to issue them an id.

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The trouble with resisting temptation is..... that you may not get another chance.

What is it about a national ID card that trashes the Constitution? Over the lifetime of an average U.S. citizen, he/she will have other forms of identification such as a driver's license, social security number, military I.D., passport, etc. Your gross overreaction to Nobbi's post notwithstanding, there are many good citizens, including yours truly, who would have no objection to some method of reliable identification which might eliminate the necessity of screening procedures at the airport for those persons holding such identification. If someone determines that method could be a national ID card, I'm for it.

A driver's license or non-driver's ID card is issued by a state government. A Social Security card is not identification. A military I.D. is not for the general public. A passport is for international travel. There is no precedent for a national ID.

The Constitution lists certain functions of the federal government, with everything else reserved to the states. A national ID card is unconstitutional and does not improve security.

In the words of Benjamin Franklin:

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.

RAD

This sentence was much used in the Revolutionary period. It occurs even so early as November, 1755, in an answer by the Assembly of Pennsylvania to the Governor, and forms the motto of Franklin�s �Historical Review,� 1759, appearing also in the body of the work. � Frothingham: Rise of the Republic of the United States, p. 413.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Anagnorisis:
[B]And what is the big taboo thing with national id cards? many many many other civilized western countries use them. this is one of theose things that people do much about nothing in the us.

The "big taboo" is that here in the US we have an open society, with personal freedoms and privacy that are un-equaled in the "many, many, many, civilized countries you speak of". Here, we have no special "papers" or government IDs that are simply required just for being alive. True, state drivers licenses are used now routinely for ID, but as was stated earlier, they are independent state IDs. They are not centrally controlled or monitored, or tracked (other than legitimate motor vehicle uses).
In the other "civilized countries" you speak of, you will find such things as: national police forces and military involved with the investigation of civillians, armed soliders at airports and other public places, requirements to register with the police when you change addresses, routine and random public surveillence via camera and other means which record and track your face, identity, and behoavior patterns (and also check to see if you are wanted), only certain members of the government are allowed to own and use firearms (self defense is not a right), and many other things that we in America just simply don't have, due to our open and free society. However horrible terrorism is, America must not let it change our very foundations, it's not worth it.

How about implanting microchips in newborns before they leave the hospital? Once any form of national ID gets started, government of the people, by the people and for the people is lost.

I have a State issued ID..my drivers licence, but that just says I am licenced by the State of Maryland to drive a motor vehicle.

I have a National ID..my passport. It says the most important thing, and something I worked very hard for many years to achieve, that I am a CITIZEN of The United States Of America. I was explaining this last night to my (native born) 15 year old son, who needed a photo ID for a school dance and could not find his school ID, that his passport was the most important and highest ranked identification he has.



[This message has been edited by Kiwiboy2000 (edited 09-23-2001).]

Out of curiosity, what info was contained in the INSPass?

INSPass has the following:
Name (last, first, MI)
Sex
Nationality
Date of Birth
Passport Number
....and a really fuzzy digital photo.
On the back are a magnetic stripe and a whole lot of letters and numbers.