Morality of miles
Aug 31, 2001, 5:14 pm
#31
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Huntington Beach, CA, USA
Posts: 16
Remember, everytime an airlines "gives" you miles, they are holding on to you as a future customer. It takes a lot of miles to get a free ticket and you spend a lot of money to get that free ticket.
If giving extra miles to "customers" was a problem, there would be no FF programs.
They know exactly what they are doing - keeping us as loyal customers to their particular airline.
Consider that many of the promotions they run for 100 or 200 miles is to make sure you are returning to their websites.
Also remember that if a plane is full in first and business with paying passangers, the flight is paid for at that point.
If giving extra miles to "customers" was a problem, there would be no FF programs.
They know exactly what they are doing - keeping us as loyal customers to their particular airline.
Consider that many of the promotions they run for 100 or 200 miles is to make sure you are returning to their websites.
Also remember that if a plane is full in first and business with paying passangers, the flight is paid for at that point.
Aug 31, 2001, 7:42 pm
#32
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Washington, D.C.
Posts: 306
Many, many years ago I used to illegally double dip, collecting both Eastern and TWA miles for flights on Eastern (you were supposed to get only one or the other, but I "gamed" the system through a scheme that is outdated and useless in today's more automated environment). Ultimately, I used my illegal TWA points for a free room at a Marriott (which used to be one of the TWA rewards back in those days).
I now invite you to pick your own ending to this story, only one of which is correct:
(a) When I returned from my illegally-obtained free stay at the Marriott, I had a sharp pang of regret. I wrote to TWA, confessing what I'd done and offering to reimburse them for the room. The Customer Service Manager wrote back, commending me for my honesty and telling me that they wouldn't charge me anything. He even sent me a $25 travel coupon and urged me to use TWA for my future travel needs, which I did, becoming a fairly loyal customer.
(b) I stayed at the Marriott, drank a toast to TWA for allowing this big gaping loophole to exist for so long, enjoyed our free night thoroughly, and didn't give it another thought until I saw this message thread and wrote this reply.
I now invite you to pick your own ending to this story, only one of which is correct:
(a) When I returned from my illegally-obtained free stay at the Marriott, I had a sharp pang of regret. I wrote to TWA, confessing what I'd done and offering to reimburse them for the room. The Customer Service Manager wrote back, commending me for my honesty and telling me that they wouldn't charge me anything. He even sent me a $25 travel coupon and urged me to use TWA for my future travel needs, which I did, becoming a fairly loyal customer.
(b) I stayed at the Marriott, drank a toast to TWA for allowing this big gaping loophole to exist for so long, enjoyed our free night thoroughly, and didn't give it another thought until I saw this message thread and wrote this reply.
Aug 31, 2001, 11:57 pm
#33
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: a raft in the middle of the Atlantic
Posts: 51
Why is the morality of miles any different from the morality of life. If you will cheat an airline/hotel/rental car agency why won't you cheat at everything? Taxes, girlfriend/boyfriend/wife/husband/life partner/steal from your employer, etc. Either you are an honest and moral person, or you aren't. A rose is a rose folks and you're either honest, moral and ethical or you're not.
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What would you do if you weren't afraid?
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What would you do if you weren't afraid?
Sep 1, 2001, 1:41 am
#34
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: ATL/MDW/ORD
Programs: AA Gold
Posts: 590
Well, it's good to know that there are some people out there with enough self honesty to think about this issue.
I must confess: when I signed up for my affinity card I was given the standard bonus two months in a row. If they ever notice the error, they can take the miles back with no protests from me. I'm sure that there have been plenty of times in my life where I have paid too much w/out realizing it. I'm not trying to thwart morality with that rationalization, I'm just appreciative of any random windfalls that come my way.
I must confess: when I signed up for my affinity card I was given the standard bonus two months in a row. If they ever notice the error, they can take the miles back with no protests from me. I'm sure that there have been plenty of times in my life where I have paid too much w/out realizing it. I'm not trying to thwart morality with that rationalization, I'm just appreciative of any random windfalls that come my way.
Sep 2, 2001, 1:23 pm
#35
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 372
One last shot at the "rerouting to a different airline" because this may have a bearing on individual practice.
Assuming that an X-Airline FF purchased a ticket. To begin with, not everyone cares about FF benefits, but some do and some do to an excess. For those that are rerouted and take no action to recover a "lost" benefit, that's their prerogative. Some do take an action to recover the "lost" benefit. This is not theft; it is recovery.
Had X-Airline automatically credited the FF with miles not flown with X-Airline, then I believe the credit is still warranted. The X-Airline FF sought to take advantage of the service offered, purchased the ticket, and was prepared to fly with X-Airline, but was denied the service. The automatic credit could be considered "good will" to keep the FF loyal.
Absent an automatic posting, had the FF sought, and X-Airline then credited the miles not flown, then I believe the credit is still warranted. Same reasoning, but, in this case, X-Airline had the option to say "No," but elected to say "Yes."
Does it meet the exact language of the FF program? No, so if they say "No," then you know how they value your loyalty.
Some of us value time and loyalty. Had I stood in line (either at the airport, CTO, travel agency, or Web-site) and completed my purchase (apologies to Efrem), then I expected to take advantage of the service for which I contracted. A denial of service requires me to stand in line again (ticket printed, endorsed, etc.).
As I see it, there are several reroutings that can occur and I offer my view on mileage resolutions for each (I expect that there are others); the airline can still say "No" to any that do not meet the program rules, but they are likely to lose the "good will" of a loyal FF:
(1) Rerouted on same airline to the same (or equivalent; i.e., JFK=LGA=EWR) location(either a direct route or indirect route, taking more or less segments) -- no additional mileage from that actually earned.
(2) Rerouted on same airline to an alternate location (and alternate service to original destination; e.g., JFK-ORD replaced with JFK-DTW on X-Airline and DTW-ORD on Y-Airline) -- mileage from origin to destination should be credited (independent of mileage to alternate location).
(3) Rerouted on alternate airline -- mileage from origin to destination should be credited (independent of mileage accrual from alternate service).
Any other thoughts?
[This message has been edited by BravoZulu (edited 09-03-2001).]
Assuming that an X-Airline FF purchased a ticket. To begin with, not everyone cares about FF benefits, but some do and some do to an excess. For those that are rerouted and take no action to recover a "lost" benefit, that's their prerogative. Some do take an action to recover the "lost" benefit. This is not theft; it is recovery.
Had X-Airline automatically credited the FF with miles not flown with X-Airline, then I believe the credit is still warranted. The X-Airline FF sought to take advantage of the service offered, purchased the ticket, and was prepared to fly with X-Airline, but was denied the service. The automatic credit could be considered "good will" to keep the FF loyal.
Absent an automatic posting, had the FF sought, and X-Airline then credited the miles not flown, then I believe the credit is still warranted. Same reasoning, but, in this case, X-Airline had the option to say "No," but elected to say "Yes."
Does it meet the exact language of the FF program? No, so if they say "No," then you know how they value your loyalty.
Some of us value time and loyalty. Had I stood in line (either at the airport, CTO, travel agency, or Web-site) and completed my purchase (apologies to Efrem), then I expected to take advantage of the service for which I contracted. A denial of service requires me to stand in line again (ticket printed, endorsed, etc.).
As I see it, there are several reroutings that can occur and I offer my view on mileage resolutions for each (I expect that there are others); the airline can still say "No" to any that do not meet the program rules, but they are likely to lose the "good will" of a loyal FF:
(1) Rerouted on same airline to the same (or equivalent; i.e., JFK=LGA=EWR) location(either a direct route or indirect route, taking more or less segments) -- no additional mileage from that actually earned.
(2) Rerouted on same airline to an alternate location (and alternate service to original destination; e.g., JFK-ORD replaced with JFK-DTW on X-Airline and DTW-ORD on Y-Airline) -- mileage from origin to destination should be credited (independent of mileage to alternate location).
(3) Rerouted on alternate airline -- mileage from origin to destination should be credited (independent of mileage accrual from alternate service).
Any other thoughts?
[This message has been edited by BravoZulu (edited 09-03-2001).]
Sep 4, 2001, 12:19 am
#36
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Chicago
Posts: 2,682
How is it against airline rules to receive credit for two airlines when rerouted. If I am flying UA and then rerouted to AA. I call UA and ask for the miles, they are fully aware that I will automatically receive the miles on AA. When they agree to credit you the miles, I highly doubt that they think you will call up AA and tell them you don't deserve the miles. I am sure that UA realizes that I will be receiving miles from both programs for this flight, but are Ok with it since, i apid for UA miles.