wigstheone

Just idle speculation, but I would hypothesize that part of the reason some people are able to "bend the rules" or act "aggressively" in the context of frequent flyer programs (and I have occasionally done so myself), is that their actions seem neglible and largely without harm.

For example, the actual number (and the value) of the miles involved is typically small, the individual has probably paid a significant fare to the carrier for that trip (or in aggregate), service levels leave many feeling that they are not getting their dollar's worth, and the airlines seem to represent the bad guys, profit seeking at the expense of the needy (i.e. US).

If the cost of one's actions regarding these programs were identifiably greater, the cost and returns closer to even, the customer had a greater feeling of satisfaction, or the "victim" was a more respected or empathetic group, then you would probably see even less of this behavior occurring.

juanvaldez

I would not report an error in my favor. I
have been hit by delays that are the airlines' fault many times. It all evens out in the end.

Give a little, get a little.

Efrem

It's one thing if an airline (most likely inadverently) gives you extra miles. How about asking for miles we know we don't deserve?

- Airline A involuntarily reroutes you on B after a mechanical problem. You are a member of both programs. You arrive within minutes of the original schedule and receive B's miles for your flight. You then request A's miles for what you originally booked.

- Airline A has a bonus that you know is targeted to recipients of a mailing, such as a specific geographic area. You learn the code, perhaps from these boards. You register but do not receive the bonus. You call to complain.

Is this sort of thing ethically worse than leaving well enough alone when miles show up in your account for no apparent reason? Have many, perhaps most, of us been guilty of this at one time or another?

Thoughts? Comments?

Plato90s

Well, I think both examples Efrem points out would be morally wrong. Both of those actions are deliberate actions to take what doesn't belong to you. It's like the difference between finding a $20 bill on the sidewalk and a pickpocket taking it from someone's wallet.

In both cases, the reward [$$ or miles] came out of somebody's pocket. But the sidewalk money fell out accidentally and you just got lucky. The pickpocket would be committing a crime.

For myself, it's complicated by the fact that one of the extra segments falls into my PLT challenge period, which means I hit PLT faster. More bonus miles on the legit flights. I would have made it anyways, but it makes giving up the miles [and Q-points!] that much harder.

So, at this point I've pretty much decided to call AA and let them know, but only after my new PLT status is confirmed. I figure they won't take my status away even if some of those Q-points vanish after the fact. I'm trying to be a good person, not a saint.

Who knows, maybe they'll just let me keep the miles.....

SBA

Once I was credited with too many miles,called UA and they took them back.But I felt better. If it was the reverse(not being properly credited)I would be on the phone in a flash.

But now I am in a dispute with UA about an upgrade I bought my Dad. The flight was cancelled and rebooked at AA. He was put in coach,(which I didn't catch because of all the rushing around).MP visa says too bad, once you get on the plane you essentialy agree to all conditions. UA says go to AA, AA says go to UA...it is a mess.Should have kept those miles.

exsato

Recently, I called the US dividend miles center to report 10,000 extra miles credited to my account. I had enough for a free ticket but wanted to use them legitimately. I was thanked for my honesty but was "rewarded" with a prompt deduction of the miles. My balance decreased to an amount less than what was needed for the new ticket. I was disappointed...

hindukid

Efrem,

I respectfully disagree with your point about receiving miles on another carrier. If I paid for a ticket on UA, I deserve miles from UA. Would you make the same claim to a premier member who lost a 100% bonus because they were rebooked on AA. Besides when you think about the hassle and time of being rerouted, then a little compensation is due.

SharonLPK

Exsato:

Had something similar happen to me -- not airline miles, but rather Radisson goldpoints -- someone else's 22,500 were transferred into my husband's account -- I promptly called GP, was 'rewarded' with them transferring ALL of my husband's points out, took over a week to get it all straightened out. Not even as much as a verbal 'thank you for bringing this to our attention' or slight GP point 'gift'.

Butcher Bird

No, I probably would not correct an airline that had made a mistake on crediting me with too many miles. On the converse, I generally do not call or write when I am shorted miles either. I.e., it is just not worth fretting over that 526 mile flight or the fact that Budget Auto Rental did not credit a half segment to SWA.

Now, on those occasions where the ante is larger (e.g., 6,000 miles at one time) I have written and received credit.

BravoZulu

Absolutely agree with Hindukid on Efrem's point. Apart from the triviality of the points/miles in question, it is a matter of "good will."

Look at the issue as the effort you took to remain loyal to the airline/hotel. If you book and pay for a service that is denied to you, then are you entitled to compensation? I think yes.

The very least they can do is give you the loyalty points that you "earned" by attempting to be loyal; it is my view that this is not a matter of taking something that you haven't earned.

Now, if you receive a collateral benefit provided by an alternate service, then it is just further mitigation for the inconvenience from the denial of service (and I do say thank you). Had I wanted to use their service, then I would have booked with them in the first place. Would I not take the additional point/miles? Where was that turnip truck yesterday?

Efrem

Some interesting points here.

From a theoretical point of view, I take issue with the position that "I was inconvenienced. This is my way of getting back at the folks who inconvenienced me."

Those are two issues. Being inconvenienced is one thing. Asking for double miles in a situation where you know it's against the rules, you know you'll probably get them, and you know you will almost surely not get caught, is something else.

When we are inconvenienced in other situations we do not define our own redress and take it. When we have to wait in a long line at a store, we do not feel that justifies putting a pack of chewing gum in our pockets. We may say something, but we do not steal anything - no matter how small - from the store as self-defined revenge. Do we say to a storekeeper "I waited so long that I ate one of your muffins; I won't pay for it because I deserve something and you should give it to me for good will so I'll come back?" Why is it only with FF miles that we use this "I deserve it because of what I had to go through" logic?

I'm no saint. I'd probably take the double miles. However, while the $$ involved may be trivial and the thrill of the miles chase may blind us to the bigger issues, it's good to think about them once in a while.

Plato90s

Well, this was certainly an interesting discussion, and I hope it continues at this high level of knowledge.

For myself, I've talked with AA and they apparently can't change the entries. When CX rebooked me on the next day's flight, I was booked in J, which is a full fare ticket as far as AA's computers are concerned and that's what CX paid. The CSR I talked to couldn't think of a way to change it, since the flight had already taken place and the fare code is entered.

And if the return J-class flight leg is in there, the A-class outbound leg will show up eventually because the computer system will auto-update the mileage account eventually. This is how an extra leg showed up a month after it was flown.

So the CSR basically said it'd be too much trouble to try to fix it. I get to keep both my morals and the miles!!!

silverpie

I actually did complain recently about being shorted 500 miles on US Airways. However, the point was that I was also shorted a segment, and as my plans for the year fall out, that segment is likely to be the difference between making Gold and Silver.

lyss710

Interesting topic, and great discussion. Very happy to see educational, constructive debate here and no "flaming".

I'm a pretty moral person, I guess (even though I do eat a grape at the grocery store to make sure they're not sour ). I'd probably call the airline and report the extra miles if they showed up in my account and shouldn't have. Hopefully, the airline would let me keep the miles, but part of the deal with calling and reporting an overage is that they may take the miles away (especially if it's a big error).

I don't know that it's the same as simply finding a $20 on the sidewalk, since you have no way to determine who the money on the sidewalk actually belongs to. I think it would be more like actually seeing a $20 bill fall out of someone's pocket onto the sidewalk and then taking it anyway, even though you know who it belongs to. Not illegal, just not the best choice, ethically speaking. Now if you offer the $20 bill back to the person and they let you keep it, it becomes a gift and it's yours to enjoy. Same with FF miles.

As far as the issue of receiving mileage for a ticket bought on one airline but re-routed to another - this is a different issue, because this is a flagrant breaking of the rules and terms of the frequent flyer programs (which you agreed to abide by when you enrolled in the program). You may not like the rules, or think they're fair, but you are still obligated to abide by them. It's just like going 5 miles over the speed limit on the interstate - seemingly harmless, but still against the law.

Basically when it comes down to it, doing just what the law requires may keep you out of trouble or jail, but it doesn't necessarily mean you are person with strong integrity. Also, since what is "moral" is a matter of opinion, not everyone will agree on exactly what morality is. It's been interesting to see everyone's opinions on this thread - keep up the interesting discussion!

outoftown

I have had some big errors fall my way, latest 2 were AA giving me 2 rt to NRT 1st class for 50,000 less ff miles than required for a trip I have next month. The second AA agent I talked to realized it was an error, but left it alone. DL gave me two 1st class rt to HNL last year for 60K ff miles instead of 120K. I even called to ask if I was only getting one ticket instead of two. Although I am the kind of guy that has returned lost wallets and I point out errors on receipts not in my favor, I didn't think these kind of errors had to be remedied. I think of these as "goodwill" errors that keep a good customer happy.