Peter Greenberg was on Oprah. Some of these tips may be already posted, but not all in one place:

Getting the Best Ticket Price
Peter suggests first telling the reservation agent where you want to go, not when you want to travel. Ask for all of the published fares from your departure to your destination cities. Ask them to scroll down to the bottom of the list to find the cheapest fare and you can schedule your trip around those times. The cost difference could be hundreds or even thousands of dollars.

E-Tickets
An E-ticket diminishes your flight options exponentially � you'll need a "paper" ticket in order to get a new flight if necessary. With only an e-ticket, you'll have to withstand long lines to get the paper ticket you could have had in the first place!

Calling for Arrival and Departure Times
The "scheduled" arrival and departure times are what the airline gives you when you call to see if a flight is on time. Instead, ask an agent to check the "FLIFO" or "flight information." When you find out your aircraft information, ask where that plane is currently located. If your flight is supposed to depart from Chicago in two hours and the plane is still in New York, you're not leaving on time!

Comparing Arrivals and Departures
Don't be satisfied if the departure board says your flight is leaving on time � dig deeper. Virtually every flight says "on time." Look at your gate information on the arrival board, too. If your flight is scheduled to leave from Gate F4 at 1:25, and you see that another flight is arriving at that same gate at 1:16, there's no way you're departing on time! Peter says to do the extra math and save yourself a headache!

Airport Drop Off / Pick Up
If you get dropped off at the arrivals area for a departing flight, there's no traffic. If you're meeting someone who's coming in during peak hours, pick them up at the departures area to save time.

Good Seats
If you're flying coach, you might be able to find some extra room if you can book a "secret seat." A couple seats are designated for crew rest on international flights, but they're likely open on domestic flights. You could get a fully reclining, double-the-leg-room coach seat (with possibly drawn curtains for privacy)!

For example: Peter says an American Airlines 767 has two special seats for crew rest on international flights, but on domestic flights, they may be available � seats 17 H and J.

Air Phone Codes
What if your flight is delayed while you're sitting on the plane and you have a connecting flight? You can't use your cell phone, and you don't want to spend a fortune to use an air phone. Every airline has a two-digit star code that you can use � and it's a free call. Ask the flight attendant for the star code, and talk to the airline while everybody else is worrying!

The Secret Rule 240
If you're going to check in for a flight and it's delayed or cancelled, ask the agent to invoke Rule 240. For any reason other than weather, under Rule 240, your ticket will be endorsed over to the next available flight-not just that airline's next available flight, any next available flight!

Thanks for the info.. Rule 240 sounds great ! Great way to avoid plane delays..
thanks again

Rule 240 must be similar to another rule that applied to a friend of mine. He was flying ORD-LHR via MSP on NW.
His flight out of ORD was delayed or cancelled. NW wanted to route him to LHR in some other way. This was unacceptable since he had a business meeting the following morning that he would miss.

The guy called his travel agent and was given
instructions to demand that NW route him through JFK and put him on a BA Concorde flight (at NW's expense of course.) When the NW supervisor refused and said he had to do it their way, he followed the travel agent's instructions by saying "that's involuntary routing." The NW supervisor was very agitated
and literally threw the Concorde ticket at him! I guess a good travel agent can really pay off.

I can picture what would happen if a pax tried to draw those curtains around himself if he happened to get one of those crew rest seats domestic. That's Peter Greenberg again...

[This message has been edited by unagi1 (edited 05-31-2001).]

So 17H and J have been revealed on national TV.... Well, there goes one of the better secrets for AA. By the way, they are rarely available - only on very empty or fully loaded flights. But they are worth it. Like a private compartment.

You mean you knew about them and were holding back on us? Shame on you! (just kidding......sort of)

Lots of discussion around here on Rule 240 and Rule 120 http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum94/HTML/005165.html http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum95/HTML/001125.html

Aha... The last time I was on a 767, I was in 20J (right behind 17J, go figure)... I couldn't work out why the FA's kept trying to get the passengers there to move, nicely offering them a whole row further back in the plane... Of course, the food cart sits there as well, so that makes a difference...

pigsfly

Folks there is a lot more involved than these simple tips.

First "calling or arrival and departure times"...."if your plane is supposed to dapart from ORD in two hours and the plane is still in New York, you're not leaving on time!"....not always TRUE!! It is very common place especially in hub cities to replace the inbound aircraft with one that's already in ORD......flights are swapped frequently in hub cities just for this reason. If an inbound flight is 3 to 4 hours late on arrival there's likely chance that the airline will swap equipment (if avail.) Now if you call and the agent tells you that your flight is stuck in LGA and will be at least two hours late...don't use this as guidence for your departure time! You could be missing out on a "ship change". This also goes for comparing arrivals and departures....If the airlines are working behind the scenes for possible solutions they are not going to post a flight as being delayed! Once a delay is posted passengers then will not be in the gatehouse until the new time of departure. If an equipment swap takes place these people are left high and dry.

"The Secret Rule 240"...what the heck is so secret about 240? It's been around for many many years and worse of all it's used very infrequently!! It's rule 120.20 which is a simple endorsement of the coupons value to another carrier. 240 is used only when absolutely necessary and only used for award tickets, being flown to another city than your original (origination and distination is now different than the original ticket), date changes. Just aske the agents if they can endorse your ticket to another carrier....that's it....you don't have to "invoke rule 240".....it's an agreemant amongst carriers.

Oh ya the "secret seats".....The crew rest seats are only blocked for International flights, and they are not left blocked for domestic flights. Some seats are saved by the airline to grant the gate agents flexability when trying to seat families together...

Also ..haiving a paper ticket is fine, but remember that an agent still must stamp the endorsement or actually provide another ticket that is valid for the carrier. There's still a line....remember you can't loose an electronic ticket, but paper one's can disappear....and it's not cheap going through the lost ticket application process. You repurchase then at a much later date you are granted a refund. Electronic tickets are far more beneficial than paper tickets. Also with electronics changes can be done over the phone...and ticket reissues can also be accomplished over the net or phone. Any changed with paper.....you've got that nice ticketing line to stand through at the airport. The Electronic ticket change ..goes straight to the gate......

10kster: It's nice to see your perspective and insight on the board.

I do, however, disagree that etix are easier to change than paper. I've had situations where I've had an eticket and the flight was canceled. About 140 people are now trying to get four agents to find them flights. Those with paper tickets were able to call the reservations line, get booked on another carrier's flight and walk straight over to the other carrier. Those with etickets had to wait in line to get a paper ticket that they could then take to another carrier. Of course, during the long wait, several flights that many of us could have been booked on departed. ... I will never get another eticket. They help airlines, they don't help passengers. BTW, many people on the board, including myself, have had success taking their paper tickets to another carrier without getting them endorsed.

I'm also curious about your statement that it's 120.20 that generally applies. I guess you disagree that Rule 240 is the agreement between passenger and airline (in the contract of carriage that each airline provides the DOT) and 120.20 is the agreement between airlines and has nothing to do with passengers? I've been researching this a bit more since the other thread and even travel attorney Al Anolik says it's 240 that applies to passengers - 120.20 is strictly between airlines.

Also, from what I understand these rules only apply on domestic flights. True? And if so, is there any contractual passenger protection on US-based carriers when a flight between the US and an international destination is canceled or severely delayed?

Thanks



[This message has been edited by letiole (edited 05-31-2001).]

I want to second the comment about not relying on the location of an inbound aircraft as an indication that the flight will be delayed.

1) Many airlines have designated spare aircraft located at strategic locations throughout their network on stand-by to fill in for irregular flight operations (especially true at hub cities).

2) Even with no spares, an airline may cancel another, less important flight at the last minute to free up an aircraft for your flight. (Depends on passenger loads, revenue, availability of alternative routings, etc.).

3) Airline may delay an earlier departure to take on passengers from the later, delayed flight.

I've seen people miss flights by trying to be "smart" in using the FLIFO aircraft positioning info.

Same goes with "Comparing Arrivals and Departures." Only use this info once you've arrived at the airport, and even then watch out for gate changes. I use this technique quite often when trying to decide when to leave a restaurant or airline lounge for the gate-- but you have to be vigilant.

Also, even if the flight departs the gate late, you run the risk of being bumped if you are not there ahead of scheduled departure time (assuming no revised actual departure time has been posted). Since the airline may be trying to turn the plane around quickly, they may start processing standbys before the aircraft is even at the gate.


[This message has been edited by HKG_Flyer1 (edited 05-31-2001).]

"...Those with etickets had to wait in line to get a paper ticket that they could then take to another carrier..."

Absolutely been my experience as well!

17H&J are crew rest seats only. I was told by an AA FA that these seats can only be released by the airport if one of the cabins is completely full. She said that it was part of the FA contract that these seats are free unless the plane is overbooked.

On transcon flights I routinely see FAs do their best to keep 17HJ open; they really like having this area to work and rest. They may ask the gate agent to reassign the passenger, or ask the passengers themselves to move once they're on board. I saw one couple refuse once, and they ended up with about three carts placed in front of them - less leg room than coach without MRTC! I'd never take this seat assignment, because more than likely you're going to be pressured to move and then you get your choice of all those great leftover seats nobody else wanted.

I've got to say that this Greenberg guy is a lot of hot air. He doesn't say much that the experienced traveler doesn't know, but he says enough to get inexperienced travelers into trouble. Things like using FLIFO to time your airport arrival can be disastrous, as noted by others. He also says the airlines absolutely *won't* offer you the lowest fare unless you specifically ask, which I think is a bit disingenuous.

I'm another who thinks there are pros and cons to both paper tix and e-tix. Losing a paper ticket is an expensive proposition these days; no danger of that with an e-tix. As for skipping the line if your flight is canceled and you have a paper tix, this may or may not be true depending upon the type of ticket you have. If you're not flying full fare, you'll be lucky if another airline takes your ticket without an endorsement. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but I'd hate to make a long walk to another terminal only to find out my ticket needed to be endorsed. Also, the endorsement rule applies only if you're changing airlines. If the change of plans keeps you on the same airline then there's no need for a paper tix - calling the 800#, your elite desk, visiting the airline club, or simply going to the gate of the next departing flight can often take care of the problem faster than standing in line at the front counter.

My favorite (not!) "idea" of Greenberg's today was his method for skipping curbside or counter baggage check-in. He suggests tipping the porter an extra $10 and asking for your luggage to be taken directly to the gate, even if it's over carry-on limits. Porters, according to him, can bypass security and those pesky baggage templates (if this is true, I'm highly alarmed at the possibility of security breaches!). Once arriving at the gate, simply ask for all your bags to be gate checked, and guess what - yours will be the first off the plane at your destination! First of all, I think you'd have a hard time finding a porter who'd even consider schlepping your bags all the way to the gate, even if he can bypass security. Secondly, if 1% of the people watching Oprah today give this a try, the airlines are going to flip out!

Yes, it's important to know your rights, and as with anything, the more practice you have the better you get at playing the game. But throwing out info like this is really a disservice to many people. Play by the rules, be polite to everyone you interact with, and roll with the punches when things go awry. That's *my* best advice for any traveler, frequent or not! Maybe I should write a book and go on Oprah, too... ;-)

IMHO Peter Greenberg is a dumbass.

Every once in a while he comes out with a piece of sound advice, but more often than not, his (mis)information is going to A..cause you to miss your flight, B..annoy the airline employee who has to deal with you, and C..annoy everyone standing in line behind you while said airline employee is dealing with you.



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Have a great day!!
~~Missy~~