The only way for 2 people to keep a secret is if one of them is dead.

Might as well post it for all to see. But, post on UA board please.

edit: fat fingers

[This message has been edited by markbach (edited 05-21-2001).]

TVL4FREE I think I am a "senior" Fter and you have gone way out of your way to help others...even beyond the constraints of the board...we talked about that. My idea is to post it and let the miles land where they land..you know who your friends are..e-mail me with details. This is getting way out of hand..and I am sorry it came to this. It is a shame that this topic even came up.

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MRKEY


[This message has been edited by MRKEY (edited 05-21-2001).]


[This message has been edited by MRKEY (edited 05-21-2001).]

Post it. The internet is here to share information for the common good. It doesn't matter to me where you post it. If I don't like the content of a thread, I skip it.

It is in deed, but a sad reality of what the board has grown to be of recent!

I'd say post it.

Sooner or later, someone else is going to find it. Someon is going to publish it - if not here, then in rec.travel.air or elsewhere. UA, or whomever, will find out about it. If they want to shut it down, they will. Not you, not I, not anyone else in FT can prevent this from happening.

The only thing you have any control over is whether FTers will be able to take advantage of whatever this is before that happens.

So, unless delaying public knowledge by a few weeks is important to you or to someone close to you, I'd say post!

Where? There's been a good deal of interest both here and in the UA thread, so I'd suggest there (or in *A) with a link to the other(s).

And if you find something comparable for AA and/or OW, please let me/us know ...

Post it to the mileage run forum, please.

I must admit, I am quite curious about your "quite frankly, I've been burned, and burned alot lately!" comment.

Why wouldn't you want to post it? Isn't that the purpose of FT? If we want arcane hints to secret ways of earning miles, etc., we could stick with aa.com. If the "good deals' start drying up, what's the point of coming here?

But in this case, it won't be for the "common good." It will turn out to be for the good of the airlines, our common enemy. (And "enemy" is the correct term.)

Remember, this is not something you'll be able to do in a single day, and you probably won't even be able to prepare for it in a single day. If it's as effective as has been inferred, then UA may well shut it down on short notice. They may in fact be able to shut it down before anyone has a chance to take advantage of it.

While they may not be looking explicity for deals to shut down, any airline management that is not closely monitoring a forum such as this would be seriously remiss in their duties.

Very Sad how we "horde" our information.
I would always say post things that are legal and benefit our community

I agree that Ken has a good point here, yet I also think it should be posted in the *A forum for general use. However it is Tvl4free's call here. I hope however you will post it...

I think you're a tad paranoid there, Ken. The airlines benefit from the increased revenue generated from "specials" hysteria, etc. Plus, look at all the milleage runners who similarly tweek the system to get perks, but still put $$ in the airlines' coffers. Let's face it, if they get $5 for a seat which would otherwise go empty, they're ahead: its not like they are going to hold the plane until they get a full load...

I think you're a tad paranoid there, Ken. The airlines benefit from the increased revenue generated from "specials" hysteria, etc. Plus, look at all the milleage runners who similarly tweek the system to get perks, but still put $$ in the airlines' coffers. Let's face it, if they get $5 for a seat which would otherwise go empty, they're ahead: its not like they are going to hold the plane until they get a full load...

Well first and foremost, I certainly would hope that no one would feel castigated here. If so, maybe we are all taking ourselves just a little too seriously.

Historically speaking, the past practices of FT were that if there was something good and by the book, then post away. After all, the point of the bonuses and such are marketing. The more people know about it, well, that's win/win. I'd put things like the Hilton profile update bonus in this category.

If something is either borderline ethically or if the tecchnique might be revoked/rule changed if too many people heard about it then the practice was to save those tips for FT get-togethers. It was an incentive to come to the gathering and a sport of one-ups-person-ship at the gathering. I tend to put ticket nesting, back-to-back deals and bait and switch into this category.

If something was clearly over the line ethically or just not fair cricket, then the practice was to either talk at length about it or bash whoever had the audacity to suggest actually doing it. Like selling upgrades and miles on ebay.

Anyway, not to say that anyone is (or ever was) under any obligation to abide by any of this, just that this is my impression of how it used to work on FT.

How it works in the future, well, that's up to each of us individually...

and That's the "glass is � empty" view of the pessimist. My view is the exact opposite: FT has grown to include thousands of knowledgeable individuals who regularly post what they know and happily and generously answer the questions of others, to the point where FT has become a stunningly powerful repository if FF information. This thread indicates the glass is in fact 9/10 full. To me, the question in the first post was obvious. It was not "please please please stroke my ego and beg me to post this trick." It was a request for advice on how to make sure the most FTers can benefit from it.

The problem is that this success and power has come with a price -- that is, the airlines can no longer afford to ignore it. They all lurk here, whether you want to believe it or not. And just like in real life, when your opponent learns of your advantages, they take steps to eliminate those advantages.

So sure you can say "yeah I want it and I want it now, so post away." But especially in this case where taking advantage of the trick will require substantial time and planning, it will be a simple matter for UA to eliminate the opportunity before anyone has a chance to use it. How many FTers will then be able to take advantage of it? None! Posting the trick in a very public forum will simply assist the airline, and no (or very few) FTers will benefit.

Yes, information wants to be free, especially in the age of the internet. But in this case, like a pet dog roaming on a freeway, the information won't be free, it will be dead.

[This message has been edited by Ken hAAmer (edited 05-22-2001).]

The difference here is that we're not talking about taking advantage of a short term publicly announced "special" but taking advantage of a something in the fare rules that is not understood. (Even the airlines don't understand their fares, rules and tarriffs. That's one reason why it's so hard for them to tell you the least expensive fare between two points.)

But if that was true, why aren't airlines offering $5 fares 10 minutes before flight time?

This also presumes that the $5 fare would only be used by someone otherwise wouldn't be travelling. But what if someone who through particular need was willing to pay $2000 suddenly discovered they could pay $5 with careful planning?

The benefit we're talking about here is not getting an otherwise empty seat for little money, it's about spending little money to obtain a very expensive benefit from the airline that was designed to attract big spenders. And the costs go well beyond the basic dollars and cents, to the less obvious but equally tangible costs of diluting elite benefits, overcrowded lounges, paid J seat availability in the face of substantially increased demand for upgrades.

The airlines do have a vested interest in mileage-runners paying to fill otherwise empty seats. This deal though, is a whole other animal, and qualitatively differnt.