Infants in First Class
 

I have been on a couple of flights now with infants in first class. One was on AS and the baby screamed all the way from Seattle to Sacramento. AS gave me additional upgrade coupons when I complained. The other flight was on NW - MSP - SMF. That baby only cried part of the trip.

Are there any airline rules about infants/toddlers in first class? Do they vary by airline? Any strategies for dealing with this when it becomes a problem?

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AS MVP Gold, UA PremEx, HHonors Gold, Hertz Pres Circle

I just love babies (do you here my daughters, I can't wait to become a grandfather) - seldom a problem for me.

I was on ATL-HNL in coach right near the connection. Someone brought a baby along in F and he/she cried about 1/2 the flight. There were some young kids in F, too but they were well behaved from what I saw whenever the curtain parted. I am glad though that I didn't blow any miles or $$$ for F with the baby crying 1/2 the time.

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Time..... is on my side.

That's life in the First Lane. Infants have as much right to be in First as you do. In the big picture, there are many other annoying people in planes and, unfortunately, you can't ask them to get off the plane, either.

Luckily, I have not yet encountered a seriously noisy infant in front cabins but IMO, it is fairly annoying to have someone disturb peace for any amount of time on any flight.

Infants are NOT full fare paying passengers, so why should they spoil the trip for everyone else? If I pay for the privilege of a bed seat in 1-st then I seriously object to any noise which interrupts my sleep. After all if I pay a good 25 times more for that (bed-seat)privilege then why should I suffer just to be nice?

Would anyone tolerate if someone brought a ghetto blaster on board and turned it up to the same volume as an infant makes? I seriously doubt it. The person would be asked to turn it down and if he was to refuse then he'd probably be restrained and later arrested for disturbing the peace, noise pollution, etc, etc...

Noisy kids should remain in coach as they have nothing to do in business (unless they are a business accessory) nor in 1st. However, I do not blame the kids but rather their parents who should have more respect for their fellow premium travellers. Bringing a noisy infant into a premium cabin just shows arrogance and disrespect since most passengers there travel on business and need to be well rested for their upcoming trade meetings.

P.S. I did not mean to offend anyone with my opinion. If I did then I apologise in advance but will still stick to my views.

Odds are that Greytop is a single person and not a parent of an infant or toddler. I've flown several times with my son when he was between 1 year and 2 years old. Fortunately he was well behaved and didn't make a fuss. We flew FC each time. As far as I'm concerned he has equal right to fly in FC as an adult. Trust me when I say that we parents are embarrassed and frustrated when our kids bother other passengers as we know what how they feel. I used to get annoyed at crying babies while flying until my son was born. Now it's mere empathy for those parents having to deal with a fussy baby. An FA showed us a miracle pacifier, Cheerios! Amazing how some Cheerios will calm a young child.
I'd rather have a crying baby on board than a drunk adult insulting FAs or freaking out and trying to crash a plane.

Arrogance! Disrespect! I usually hold my temper but my god are you a condescending SOB Spider! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/mad.gif

Just because a parent has a child with him/her requires that we sit in coach?! True that young children don't pay full fare but they still have to pay for a seat, generally between 50% and 75%, which amounts to quite a bit if flying internationally.

Additionally,

The comparison between a crying baby and a ghetto blaster is so off base.

A kid with a ghetto blaster would be "controllable." A baby is NOT.

Here we go again. Being rich or a businessperson or an airline elite doesn't exempt you completely from being a member of the human race and suffering through some of life's many annoyances and inconveniences. Charter a private jet if you want to completely escape from the riff-raff.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum1/HTML/000912.html

I don't like loud voices in airplanes either. That's why I get annoyed when people hold business conferences during red-eyes or yell into their cell phones before pull-back from the gate.

I had three or four experiences with infants and very young children in December. On one redeye flight I was in F on a 737, with a crying infant in the second row of Y behind me. I was annoyed at first, but then I had a scotch and the engines started - within 10 minutes s/he was background noise. On another flight in Y a four-year-old howled. When the seatbelt light went off her mother took her back to the rear galley/lav area and kept her there until she quieted. I also saw 5 or 6 infants and small children in Y and C on various flights who were no worse than the rest of the pax and whose presence I quickly forgot about.

Next month I am taking my 2-1/2 year old son on his first flight (pessimists: avoid UA 2833 PDX-LAX-PSP on February 9). I have no idea how he will react, but I think he'll be fine -- because I've told him in advance what he'll see on his first flight.

How have other parents prepared children for their first flight?

I should have added that he and I are paying the same fare for the flight, and when it's over he will have only 999,000 miles to go for his Million Mile status. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

I like kids as well, and I try to be tolerant, but I do wish there were preferred seating areas for families with small kids. Alternatively, perhaps a code (which the courts would probably deem discriminatory) could indicate where small kids were seated so that an appropriate seat request could be made.

On SQ 8198, CHC-SIN, 1 Jan, there were three families with 6 kids packed into 3 center rows. Two kids proved to be catalysts for the rest. Suffice it to say that the experience was slightly less than pleasant for those seated nearby on the 10+ flight. Several of us wished that we could have known about the proximity of the families a priori and thus request different seating. On a quick LH trip over the next two days BKK-FRA-BKK, there was only one screamer on each flight, but gratefully displaced from my location by over 5 rows each time. On Fri, 5 Jan, on UA from BKK-NRT it was peacefully quiet, but on UA 800 NRT-JFK a family sat across the aisle, upstairs business, two and three rows ahead of me (I was in 15G). The mother did nothing to alleviate a fight, which lasted from mid-Aleutians to nearly Lake Ontario, between her teenage son and young daughter.

Regarding strategies, I just move if I can. On the last flight, I was so tired that I just popped in my Sony NC-10 noise-canceling headphones, and collapsed in my seat... too lazy to move downstairs. However, on the preceding flights I looked for reasonable alternative seating to no avail. In the good old days, I would request the smoking section (I do not smoke) if I saw a bunch of kids in the departure area. Alas, that option has drifted away like smoke in a breeze...

While I think that it is every parent's choice to sit in first or coach with their infant, my husband and I choose not to. Our son is an amazing flyer at 8 months and does not fuss much at all, but we would rather sit all in a row of 3 seats so he can use his carrier and in first/business you don't have that choice. Also, logistics aside, I have seen how some "respectable business people" treat parents and children in first and I can't subject myself or my child to that. There seems to be a lot of ill will when it comes to children in any class on the plane, but in first I have seen it reach a whole new ugly level. Besides, he flew in first for 6 months incognito when I was pregnant :-).

Hey folks - roll of the dice! I just returned from London on US Airways in Envoy(Business)class - 3 kids all under 5 yo, pretty well behaved but noisy every once in awhile, but with the headphones, movies, and a double martini they just faded out. I chatted with the FA's and the ENTIRE family of 5 where on full fare Envoy tickets - 5-6K per!

MG

Bring lots of entertainment for them. At least one new toy/coloring book (that they've never seen before) for each hour of travel. If they are real small, a bottle ready to drink when it is time to land. Little ears pop as well as big ones do, but the baby doesn't know what's going on, and drinking helps a lot.

/Pete

On Qantas there are such seats. The middle row bulkhead seats in COACH are reserved for parents with babies which makes it very handy for the parents.

dhacker is absolutely right on this one. I'm a 1K and travel first class all the time but that cannot insulate me completely from inconveniences.

If as a businessperson it is SO important to arrive at a meeting well rested and without any possibility of a disturbance on the flight then there is an answer---charter a jet. If that is too expensive for you then maybe you have to deal with all of the inconveniences of commercial air travel just like everyone else.

deech

Young kids on a flight can be a pain but that is life! They (or rather their parents/guardians) may not have paid as much as an adult but partly that is reflected in the food/drink they consume on board and the less fuel their lower body weight requires. Therefore their rights are equal to those of an adult.

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Mark

Spider, point well taken. I rarely fly QF, but most aircraft have bassinet attachment points on the bulkheads, middle and side sections. However, given the additional fixed space (no reclining seat in front) and ample leg room, on some planes, I often request bulkhead.

From my experience, small babies usually settle down after takeoff, and only cry a bit on pressurization during landing. It is the likely location of toddlers and young kids that I would really like to learn about prior to boarding.

(Edited for bolding)

[This message has been edited by UAL Traveler (edited 01-08-2001).]

[This message has been edited by UAL Traveler (edited 01-08-2001).]

Continental refused to allow my daughter and son-in-law to upgrade to first when traveling with their baby. I have mixed emotions, as a mother who traveled extensively with kids. Depends on the kid and the airline has no way of knowing what the behavior will be. I took someone else's 2 yr old once who screamed non-stop LA to SF. I personally wanted to put him on the wing.

Continental may have broken several laws if they denied the upgrade only based only on having an infant with them. Anti-discrimination laws concerning public accomodations and common-carriers come to mind.

I have mixed emotions about this. I am married but don't have any kids yet. It is aggravating when a young kid is sitting near me and he or she is screaming, crying, etc. It is especially aggravating when both I and the kid are in first class. My feeling is this: if you have enough money or status on an airline to be able to get your very young child into first class, that's your right. But you should also have the decency to fly coach if you know your kid is a noisy traveller. If you fly first class repeatedly and your child always screams, you should have the decency to realize that you are impeding peoples' ability to enjoy a luxury that they have paid for. You should fly coach next time.

And for those who don't like screaming kids or other loud noises, do as I do. I always travel with good earplugs, i.e. the squishy kind that go all the way into the ear and then expand. They block out most noises. Then I put on noise reducing earphones and I can't hear much of anything. But these don't eliminate all noise. I would still be able to hear a screaming baby if he were a few feet away. Then, my only resort is to look at the offending parent and make them feel bad.

I agree with you on this one! It would also be a wonderful thing if other travellers knew wheteher there are any kids in their vicinity on their planned flight. It also wouldn't hurt to make some flights more appealing to passengers with children by giving them a discount while making other flights more unappealing by charging 100% for an infant.


On a different issue, why would any parent who really loves their baby take their child on a plane in the first place since this causes them pain and suffering (popping ears, dry sinuses, irritated eyes, etc...)? A parent who can afford to fly in the front cabin can most certainly afford to hire a baby sitter for the duration of their trip.

premex2000: Why is it more decent to subject coach passengers to a noisy baby? I'm sure a coach airfare for a rare vacation for someone with a low or moderate income is more of a luxury that 1st class is for most of those fortunate enough to get it. 1st is usually obtained by either a free upgrade or on the company expense account. Even when it's paid for by the individual, it may represent less of luxury to a wealthy individual than coach fares are to someone else.

Flying 1st clas entitles me to a bigger seat, more legroom, more individualized service, better food/drink, and a few other perks (lounge access, shorter check-in lines). Flying first-class does not guarantee me that my cabin companions will not be boors, or that my flight attendants will not be surly.

It's the essence of MarieAntoinetteism to suggest that the élite in 1st shouldn't have to hear the wails of an infant, but that it's perfectly ok for the people in coach to enjoy the same concert. Shame on you all who suggest that.

That said, I would strongly support any airline that wanted to offer non-children flights. Such flights might be targeted specifically toward business travellers and would not alow anyone under, say, 10, on board.

(And, by the way, since when are children a protected group in anti-discrimination laws? I can't discriminate based on sex/race/and a few other things, but being an infant isn't one of those categories. Plenty of B&Bs don't allow children; it'd be against the law, though, if they didn't allow Jews or Italians.)

I can think of lots of reasons (not that it would be any of your business). Here are a few:

- visiting relatives to show off new baby
- breastfeeding
- separation anxiety
- enjoyment of being with your family

Spider - i think you must not have children, or else you would be aware of the plethora of reasons why parents might be traveling w/ children. Amazing as it might be to someone without children, it may be as simple as the fact that they like to be with them?

Last year, I took my daughter-in-law and my infant grandson to SanAntonio to visit my son who was "temporarily" (in fact, six months) stationed there. You would have had us drive 24 hours so as not to cause you to have to listen to a few minutes of crying? Or maybe you think the kid should have just done without Dad for six months?

We had a ground hold and were off gate for 25 minutes prior to take off. Immediately on take off, the baby fell asleep. For that 25 minutes, however, the term "Rosemary's Baby" comes to mind. The mother was mortified, but there was nothing that could be done but endure it. We couldn't explain it and couldn't fix it. I found most people to be incredibly tolerant, making jokes, and offering their own horror stories. No one was in the least ugly about the situation.

I'm one of the oldies here - three kids and seven grandkids. Yea - I'd like my own plane and complete control of the world. But I didn't get it this year http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

We better get used to it. Years ago, most of us had children when we were young and broke: we could afford neither baby sitters nor plane fares - for ourselves or our kids. Times have changed. Two-executive families in their 40's with infants are the norm these days. These affluent parents can afford to fly, and do. If sharing our airspace with them is intolerable, we should be looking for other choices for ourselves - not for them.

Just my 2cents worth http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by svpii (edited 01-08-2001).]

The children aren't the protected group, but the parents may be. I know that you can't exclude families with children from renting apartments unless the community is an authentic retirement community. B&B's may be exempt from such laws because of their size or perhaps they just don't get challenged. Or maybe I'm wrong and CO did nothing wrong. I did say "MAY" in my post.

Hello,

It seems that there will be kids on the plane regardless. I love kids, don't have any but someday hope to. Anyway, for those of you who have kids, if, for some reason, your kids were being really loud and made it difficult for others. How would you like to be approached about it?

I usually do the ear plugs, noise reduction headsets, close my eyes thing. But a few times, I wish I would have asked the parents to do something. In a couple of instances, I don't think the parents realized that the babies were screaming because their ears hurt and that, so I have been told, giving them a bottle helps with that. But I didn't want to embarrass them (at least I thought I might embarrass them).

I am looking for suggestions that can make a situation better. Kids are gonna be on the plane no matter what. Do the non-children passengers have the right to speak up about it? By the way, I love those kids that kick seats!

Cheers,

Richard

As my moniker suggests, my kids (ages 2, 4) fly everywhere with me. The more kids do something, the better they get at it. Here's what I do:

1. Pack the essentials, but pack light. There may come a time when you have to pick up a child so don't bring unnecessary bags. Bring diapers, books, snacks, but that's it.

2. Get window/middle seats. It's easier for kids to fall asleep into you when you're at the window instead of the aisles.

3. Prepare to speed change. My wife and I changed two kids in 45 seconds right at a gate. In contrast, the only flight my wife ever missed (I wasn't there) was when she went to a bathroom to change a kid and didn't have enough time to get to the gate.

4. Just like in business, don't overpromise. Better to have a juice bottle with you than promise drinks are coming and not get any juice for an hour.

5. If possible, stay with the best airports. I never fly through ORD or DTW. I stick with MSP, MKE and PIT. It's tough running through an airport carrying your luggage and 30 pounds of kid.

6. Fly just before nap time. Forget red-eyes and pre-dawn jaunts. Getting a flight just after lunch usually means a nap and an hour of peace for me.

7. Prepare for the unexpected. On one flight the plane circled the airport several times and one son vomited. Have a spare change of clothes or the vomit bag handy.

> we would rather sit all in a row of 3 seats

Thank you! I once had the [dis]pleasure of
being seated next to a 2-3 year old in the
last row of FC. The parents took a pair of
bulkhead seats. See a problem here? <g>

Kid was very unhappy. Very, very unhappy.
Parents showed zero interest/concern with
the fussing, screaming & general unruliness.

Ultimately a FA chewed my butt for being
such a lousy parent ... uh, Miss; this one
ain't mine. The parents are seated in 1F
and 1F and I'd sure appreciate it if you
relocate this scream machine to sit with
his mommy.

The FA fixed that problem promptly!

-drr

Doesnt the topic of kids, especially infants, in FC kind of fall under the same category as going to a fine, fancy restaurant only to have your evening disturbed by someone else's noisy kids? Dont get me wrong, I have 3 kids of my own ages 11, 10 and 6 and I would never have dreamed of taking them in FC as infants. Even now that they are older and are seasoned flyers I would think very seriously before putting them in FC. Of course I am also the kind of parent who controls her children... we've all sat next to the kind who dont. But I do feel at a young age coach is more acceptable, just as when your kids are little you eat at McDonalds or Friendlys sand save Lutece for when you have a sitter.

I admit that I don't have kids, but isn't this the easiest way to stop a kid from crying: put your hand over their mouth -- then they'll simply breath through their nose. After all, you can't cry through your nose. I'm not trying to be insensitive, but it seems like this wouldn't hurt the kid physically. Little kids can breathe through their noses, right? So do this for a few seconds and won't the kid stop crying? Or will he just start crying more. As I say, I don't have kids. Maybe this is against the law as physical abuse. I don't know.

I have found most parents most apologetic about unruly infants. However, I realize that they oftentimes have much less control over their child's behavior than we might believe.

I have usually found more irritating the attitude of some of the passengers... especially those in first class.

I do believe they whine more than the babies!!!!

William

Premex2000: I think you answered your own question. You would have your baby taken away from you in a heartbeat. I'm having a hard time believing you actually posted that suggestion (or even thought of it).

My last experience was an SFO-CDG over the holidays. An entire family of six was occupying just about half of the first class cabin. Sitting right behind me was an infant (barely two ears old) in the suite.
He screamed the entire way. The mother had absolutely no interest in quieting the kid down. I turned my head back a few times and gave her the look of death but it did not seem to do anything.

People have a right to have kids. No one forced them to. I also have a right to a quiet ride (whether I pay first class or coach is not even the issue).

Screaming kids are about as problematic as cigarette smoke, and I wish airlines did something about it.

[This message has been edited by Droneklax (edited 01-08-2001).]

PremEx2000:
In addition to being borderline abuse (depends on your state), I doubt it'd work - if anything, you'd likely freak the child out more.

Of course every child is different. I'm thinking about taking Caitlin (5) with me on a trip to DFW later this year. Victoria (3) couldn't do it. Patrick (2) would LOVE it, however I suspect that every passenger within the sound of his voice wouldn't.

Parents should certainly exercise some discretion - we shouldn't fool ourselves into unrealistic expectations of our children.

However kids are still kids. And frankly, there are more than a few so-called adults I've encountered in FC who could out-do my kids for being thoroughly disruptive.

If you want to be a SOLUTION to the problem, bring along a snack. I always pack breakfast bars, and on a PVD-IAH flight, 3 or 4 of these kept the situation calm with a little one next to me. Cheap and easy solution - and the toddler's mom (as well as everyone within earshot) certainly appreciated it.

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"I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own."

I try to live my life by this principle, and wish society would do the same:

I have the right to swing my hand only so long as it does not hit you.

Some children are fantastic on planes. Others are nightmares. I have had many FC flights ruined because of someone's child who just wouldn't stop screaming. I wasn't upset at the child, but at the parent. The parent should be sensitive to other passengers' needs, and not view themselves as the onmly important person in the world. If your child is not a good flyer, sit in back. Please don't ruin everyone else's trip.

I am not a parent yet, but will be. When I am, it won't give me the right to trample on other people just because I CHOSE to have children. We all need to think more of others and less of ourselves. A screaming child in FC gives maybe some pleasure to the parent(s), but diminishes the pleasure of others.

And, yes, I think people in FC have a greater right to a quiet cabin than people in coach.

Why is it that people freaked when the pig was in FC, but defend to the death people's right to take infants in FC? You shouldn't take anything or anybody you can't control into first class. It's just rude.

I remember my days at a little tot, flying in first from Korea back through Hawaii to Cincinnati. Oh the fun I had pooping in my diapers, wailing when everything wasn't exactly to my liking, running up and down the aisles, and when the urge struck, kicking the seats (or anyhting else) around me.

So its 30 years later, and I no longer consider most of those activities as enjoyable as I once did. And would I bring my little angel (or demon) on board in first, assuming I had such an individual? In a heart beat. Travelling is miserable enough in coach as it is; I couldn't imagine doing so with the added burden of any progeny.