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At least with LH FA can choose where in the cabin they like to work based on seniority,
yaou guess what they prefer... |
Sorry I have joined this debate a little late. I took pleasure in booking my family 1 + 12Mth baby + 6 Yr Old and 4 Yr old into business class on award tickets this summer.
I enjoyed the fact they would receive better service and a more stress free trip for all the pain of my FF mileage. I fail to see the problem, these are consumers, however junior, and if someone is paying for the luxury where is the problem? Personally I enjoy kids on flights and I agree with all of the above references vis a vis snobbism etc. If the parents are trying that's good enough for me. |
[quote]Originally posted by paradocs:
Paul, I have boys ages 13 & 16. I have NO qualms about them in Coach and my husband and me in First. Why would I want to spend the miles to upgrade them? They are comfortable in Coach, we parents are not on a long haul flight. This means I can do more with miles and take them to see more of the world and that is my main reason. Who has quality time with their family on a long flight anyway? We have plenty of togetherness when we arrive. Incidentally, my boys know not to come to First cabin. We check on them ocassionally and receive nothing but compliments on their manners from passengers and crew. It works for us and does not disturb anyone. Of course it's different if you have little children (we never separated til the last couple of years). |
When I flew as the teenage guest of the elder Law Lord, who was large of body as well as of spirit, I got the middle seat and he got the aisle or window (whichever our pair happened to be) unless we could maneuver an aisle and window combination from the airline. Unfair? It seemed to me to be so at the time. However --
1. He paid for the tickets; I didn't. 2. He was much larger than me and would be much more uncomfortable in the middle seat than I would. 3. I wasn't his guest in the sense of hospitality (it wasn't like one's dinner host taking the larger steak and leaving the smaller one for the invited guest). 4. I could have stayed home instead of going to New York, Miami, London, San Francisco, or Boston. On some occasions he was in F and I was in Y (never as a very small child, but from age 11 or so). He courteously explained to me that if I wanted to pay for first class then I could ride in first class. Fair enough. |
peter42.. this is also a fact... The more senior you are the more control you have over where you are...
BTW anyone here racked up "elite" status on a corporate jet? |
Actually Peter42, most FAs that I speak to prefer the main cabin. The work is not so simpler and the people are usually more pleasant. They say thank you. Still we digree for the string..which I feel has been rather flogged to death.
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It's not the kids...it's the PARENTS. My observation is that with 2 person working executive families, we are seeing a lot of kids accompanying their parents, who have been upgraded into the front cabin. In every case where there has been a disruptive kid, I have noted that the parent or nanny (gee, I hate that word) has made no attempt to restrain the child's activity. It really can be done by using the word "no". Where I come from, that's a full sentence. Note to folks who have expressed disdain in this thread for those of us riding up front: when you fly 50 to 100 thousand miles a year, and deal with the baloney we do, you can join us. It's not a socio-economic slight.
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Originally posted by DelrayChris: Also, to add to the above, are the FA's who work First Class, who think they are better than the rest of the people on the plane http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif Not all people, or FA's, are like this, of course.. But they are out there.. Another FA flying in first was late, she was upset because someone was in her seat. I saw what had happened, there were empty seats (like the one the other FA took) and some pax had moved around to accomodate a couple. The FA got very upset and had the lead FA find her some other seat, but she was still upset - I guess she really wanted whatever seat she had been assigned. -Robert |
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Goldlust:
[B] Well I guess parenting in the US (and maybe even more so in Texas) is different than in Europe. Still, to me it seems absurd to claim that the kids are comfortable in coach! They would be a lot more comfortable in First and if you can use miles for yourself and your wife to upgrade it seems unfair not to upgrade your kids as well. I have to agree with Paul Palmer that we are flogging this one to death, but as long as there still seems to be interest I can't resist defending myself to Goldlust. Goldlust, I don't know how old you are and unless you are in the vicinity of 40+ you can't identify. Does any one on the board remember how easily you could sleep anywhere as a teenager compared to later in life? Maybe it was on a floor somewhere, or at your desk at school or in the car. My children are average sized for their age. They do fine on an overnight in coach. Their dad and I do not. Goldlust, you missed the point about my not wanting to spend the points on upgrading the children. I can take these same points and buy them a coach ticket to visit some place in this vast world they will not get a chance to visit again until they make their own fortunes. Ask them which they would prefer. I did and the answer is that they would rather go more often and see new places than ride in business. As for parenting in Texas versus Europe that's a whole new topic! But, I think LawLord put it all into perspective. Fair? Fair to whom? Who said it has to be fair? |
I have to agree with Paul Palmer that we are flogging this one to death, but as long as there still seems to be interest I can't resist defending myself to Goldlust. Goldlust, I don't know how old you are and unless you are in the vicinity of 40+ you can't identify. Does any one on the board remember how easily you could sleep anywhere as a teenager compared to later in life? Maybe it was on a floor somewhere, or at your desk at school or in the car. My children are average sized for their age. They do fine on an overnight in coach. Their dad and I do not. Goldlust, you missed the point about my not wanting to spend the points on upgrading the children. I can take these same points and buy them a coach ticket to visit some place in this vast world they will not get a chance to visit again until they make their own fortunes. Ask them which they would prefer. I did and the answer is that they would rather go more often and see new places than ride in business. As for parenting in Texas versus Europe that's a whole new topic! But, I think LawLord put it all into perspective. Fair? Fair to whom? Who said it has to be fair?[/B] I'm sorry but your views are just so strange to me. Proposal: you and your spouse could fly coach as well and you could take you kids even more places. IAPA and several other organizations have recently raised the flag because of the risks of flying long haul in coach. You're not willing to expose yourself to that but you have not problem exposing the threat to your kids. I doubt any parent in my country could dream of such absurd thinking. I am not trying to insult you - it just seems obvious to be that you are way wrong. Who says it has to be fair? Well, as long as there are people like you, it hardly ever will be fair... unfortunately. ------------------ Goldlust [email protected] _____________________ Tired of being [email protected]? Sign up for FREE email from emailglobal.com at http://www.emailglobal.com |
Ok, I stayed out of this thread for a long time, but since it refuses to die, I'll chime in.
From about second grade on, there is no excuse for poor behavior. 7 year olds go to school, and presumably have learned how to behave in a community in a quiet setting. I believe that it is the parent(s)' responsibility to ensure that their child behaves, and take appropriate actions if this does not occur. As my cousins (8 kids between 3 of them) say "I'm the mom, you're the kid." But, very rarely do I see a 7-11 year old misbehave on an airplane. They're usually great, and it's harder to be an accidental seat-kicker with 40 inches of pitch... http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif When they are not great, their parents are often not model passengers, either. Younger than that, it depends on the child and the flight. But, I think the fancy restaurant analogy applies. Parents should use their judgement. We should respect parents that are obviously trying, and endure parents that are NOT trying. But, I'd contend that my heavy snoring in transatlantic business class is just as annoying to a light sleeper as a slightly fussy 9-month-old would be.... |
I started this thread. Seems everyone is ignoring the fact that it dealt with infants/toddlers in first class who aren't old enought to do other than scream and holler when they hurt, etc.
------------------ AS MVP Gold, UA PremEx, HHonors Gold, Hertz Pres Circle |
I am amused with the assumption here that most infants and kids are not desirable from the Airline point of view.
Just let us take a few marketing lessons from the tobacco companies. If you hook them young, they stay addicted. If I were an airline executive, I would love to hook them in from the time they are infants. If they can afford First/Biz as infants they may be ideal life long prospects to chase. |
A few years ago I switched from UA to AA because of their treatment of infants and kids. UA was deliberately avoiding pre-boards, etc. to discourage families from flying them and going after the biz traveller (Several press articles exposed this strategy). I was one of those biz traveller with an FF family.
At least now, I find UA and others have learnt their lesson and do not treat families as pariahs. I patronize all major airlines now and I do find that they chase after my dollars anyway and gladly welcome my FF kids, infants in FC and all http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif |
Originally posted by Greytop: I started this thread. Seems everyone is ignoring the fact that it dealt with infants/toddlers in first class who aren't old enought to do other than scream and holler when they hurt, etc. It takes one to know one... http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif |
Originally posted by Spider: ...achieved some status in life. Interesting... |
Originally posted by Spider: ...achieved some status in life. Interesting... |
Originally posted by Spider: ...achieved some status in life. Interesting... |
Originally posted by Spider: ...achieved some status in life. Interesting... |
Strange.. Click once, post 4 times http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/confused.gif
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As a soon-going-to-be-a-mother, who LOVEs traveling (business and leisure) and who has learned to appreciate the nice cabins up front, I have been reading this thread with growing dismay. Yes, I have frequently groaned and rolled my eyes when I saw that there were children anywhere near my seat, and now I guess it is my turn!
As a relatively medium sized person, I can sit in comfort if I was allowed to purchase two coach seats. I am not into the food that much, and most first class services(except long international flights) seems just an excuse to get some breathing space. So now with all the added work of taking a child along with me, I will have to think twice about the premium cabin! Truly, if I were traveling with my baby, I think I could manage quite comfortably in the three seats, if the airline would allow me to do so. When another person is added -however, I would of course prefer to travel business or first. And on long international flights - which I would think twice, thrice and four times about taking an unmanageable child, I apologise to all the other pasengers - my child will be traveling with me. My two cents, and reporting major travel withdrawal symptoms since I havent boarded an aircraft in 4 months, and dont see any hope in the next four, alka |
- Flying first class is better than flying coach.
- I travel frequently for leisure with my four-year-old son (SM on Delta), my eighteen month-old daughter, and my wife (also DL SM). - I have no hesitation about flying with my family in the First Class cabin. Because I can. Because I like it. That said, I believe in respecting the people around me. I teach this value to my children. This applies to the person clearing my plate at a truck stop, equally as much as it applies to someone in a six thousand dollar suit occupying the business class seat next to me. If circumstances call for me to eat at a truck stop, I will. I will order what I want. I will do everything I can to enable my children to have good behavior (i.e. prepare). I will attempt to correct any 'bad' behavior. We will respect those around us. If circumstances call for us to fly (as they often to, since we have a bi-coastal extended family, and simply like to travel internationally), we will. If we can fly in Business or First class, we will. Because we can. I will do everything I can to enable my children to have good behavior (i.e. prepare). I will attempt to correct any 'bad' behavior. We will respect those around us. My two cents. Well...at least two yen. |
On AA MIA-EWR 757 yesterday morning, a couple changing a VERY dirty diaper in first class was instructed by the FA to change the baby in the lavatory the next time. The rest of us just pinched our noses.
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What inconsiderate #@$%s. Even if they were in coach they should have used the lav.
------------------ "Sire, it is not a revolt. It is a Revolution!" |
I agree. I wish you had made a fuss. That is disgusting behaviour. Where all the toilets full? I suppose that people like that probably threw the thing on the floor. What finesse.
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maybe just careful, not disgusting. I have heard medical experts reccomend NOT using a/c toilets for changing babies as the baby is very vulnerable to picking up germs left behind by not-so-super-fastidious adult passengers... there's always another perspective.
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Perhaps, but they could bring along some alcohol wipes if they're that worried about it. Who says the previous seat occupant was all that fastidious, either? The reason the lav is there in the first place is for this very type activity!
Originally posted by gbogo: maybe just careful, not disgusting. I have heard medical experts reccomend NOT using a/c toilets for changing babies as the baby is very vulnerable to picking up germs left behind by not-so-super-fastidious adult passengers... there's always another perspective. ------------------ "Sire, it is not a revolt. It is a Revolution!" |
Logistically, just how would one change a baby's diaper in an airplane lavratory?
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Originally posted by PAUL PALMER: I agree. I wish you had made a fuss. That is disgusting behaviour. Where all the toilets full? I suppose that people like that probably threw the thing on the floor. What finesse. |
I now carry a Bose noise cancelling headset, so noise is less of a concern unless they are really loud and right next to me. Then it would be frustrating.
But I think airlines can get around the question of wether infants should ride in First by levying a charge of somesort for infants riding in First. As for changing diapers; IMO if the lav is equipped with a change table, they should use it. |
Plain and simple...I can afford to pay first class for my wife, our 2 kids ages 5 and 18 months and our nanny...that is 5 seats and to put it bluntly if you think the airline or myself really care what you think in your upgraded $200 ticket you are fooling yourself...join the rest of us on planet earth...if you can pay you can play!
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No argument whatsoever. I don't suppose the nanny makes a public exhibition of the diaper changing routine either. I do not think for one moment that the parents who change on the meal table are concerned about the baby catching germs. What about the people who used that meal table or the seat or the insert afterward? I am sorry but with repect, I do not see any other perspective.
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. . . hey what about us guys in coach. Why do we have to put up with all the unruly children and crying babies that you first class passengers throw back at us? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif
Just kidding (but trying to make a point)--I never (well hardly ever) fly coach. None of us likes screaming babies but hey that's life. Why should coach people be subject to this and first class exempted--spread the pain around I say. In fairness to babies, I have never had a nonstop crier, unruly kid etc on any flight (just lucky I guess?). For someone who flies over 100k per year for many years, you think this would have happened by now if it was such a serious problem (and yes I have been seated with babies and kids in the front cabin). I have actually helped "care" for a baby on a long flight (gave the mom a rest) along with other passengers. I enjoyed it. The choice is yours -- either way, if you think you are not enjoying the flight, you are probably right; if you think you are enjoying the flight, you are probably right. [This message has been edited by BlondeBomber (edited 02-08-2001).] |
Counter top or toilet lid if there's no changing table available. If there's any logistic questions, a portable counter top should be brought aboard.
Originally posted by cactuspete: Logistically, just how would one change a baby's diaper in an airplane lavratory? ------------------ "Sire, it is not a revolt. It is a Revolution!" |
As a UA1K I fly on business and with my wife and 18-month old quite frequently. Like everyone else when I am flying, whether in 1st or coach, I don't think that sitting next to a screaming baby is all that much fun (even when its your own!).
That being said I don't see any reason why a family should not be allowed to have their child up front. As a perosnl matter I have decided not to bring my daughter up front because I think it is much easier to seat her in coach where we can have three seats across or even an empty row (we tend to fly SFO-EWR alot on 757's and 320's). Maybe when she is older we can move up front but for now coach is perfectly acceptable. I also wanted to add a comment on the diaper question. Unfortunately the lavs on 757's and others are not big enough to lay a child down on the seat to change her (320's and 747's have pull down changing tables which are great). Consequently we have to change the child in the seats and until UA puts changing tables on all its planes I don't see another alternative |
Originally posted by deech: we have to change the child in the seats and until UA puts changing tables on all its planes I don't see another alternative I certainly hope that was intended as a joke! |
Originally posted by Counsellor: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/eek.gif I certainly hope that was intended as a joke! [This message has been edited by peter42 (edited 02-09-2001).] |
Double post !
[This message has been edited by peter42 (edited 02-09-2001).] |
It's too bad that's not a joke. I think that changing diapers in the seats really crosses the line as far as consideration for your fellow passengers goes. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif
------------------ "Sire, it is not a revolt. It is a Revolution!" |
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