Jim,
How did someone steal your FC seat? I did a search looking for your story. I got fired up just thinking about it!

DO TELL!

Premex,

Very clearly stated. I couldn't agree more.

Interesting topic.

While I would never think of sneaking into first or business when I was seated in coach, this discussion raises more questions ... what if the check-in agent forgets to collect your upgrade certificate and you don't mention it, is that stealing? Is it different than if a clerk at a store forgets to take your money when you buy say a TV?

What about if you book a reservation claiming to have a confirmed upgrade cert but then you "pay" with a less-valuable unconfirmed cert? Isn't that stealing, if not from the airline then from a passenger who might have been entitled to the upgrade ahead of you? I found it interesting (OK, disturbing) that the last time this was mentioned on a thread the outrage wasn't about doing it, but about revealing people's tricks.

Few things in life are clear cut it would seem.

I would like to clarify this point-

I think it is stealing, and I think it is wrong.

I just think it would show good faith on the part of the airline to voluntarly ensure that as many passengers travel comfortably as possible.

If you upgrade one person out of a section of three, that helps them all--the other two now have an empty seat in their pod, and that consistently rates as one of the most important things to coach passengers. (If the one who was upgraded wasn't in the middle, whoever was gets the vacated seat, IMO.)

Another article about stealth upgrading, this one from a FA's viewpoint.
http://www.salon.com/business/col/20....../index.html

(executive summary: try it, and you have a very good chance of getting caught)

Never flown other than Economy Class, I think that we should "comsume" what we paid for (no stealing!!) EXCEPT the provider wish to provide you something more (bonus?!). Just like...

FTer's should somehow get their upgrades after the "deadline" the airline can sell the F/J seat. (Think about that, for some restaurants near their close time, they will give you a bigger portion or more dishes than you paid for, my mum is a "big" customrer of a veg. food store so even at the morning she get "special treatment" with extras...

Sometimes airline(same as store) should "buy" their customer's loyality and they will be rewarded eventually.

Seems Asian store having this approach but why Asian airlines don't ? :O

I unfortunately have to travel a lot of weekends and occasionally holidays. Since most ffs don't usually fly those days on paid tickets, I have on many occasions sat up front in f alone or almost empty while coach was full! I have swapped seats with my wife's coach ticket before and we were even accidently upgraded on a free fare, which I don't think of as stealing. I wouldn't mind talking to someone else up front other than the typical ff. I'm sure all of you have enjoyed talking to the wide-eyed, "gee, leather seats!" individuals brought up front. I would only consider it stealing if someone moved up front on their own accord, without someone associated with the airline giving them permission. This would then exclude the mad rush of pax from coach to business on a three section flight when the F/A encouraged pax in coach to move up over the intercom. This happened on more than one AA MIA to SJU flight I had years ago. Although the only pax I've seen removed from f were there "accidently", I have seen pax removed forcibly from coach! A man and wife refused to sit in their newly assigned seats due to equipment change at DFW and in turn told the individuals holding the assigned seats to "Go to Hell", the F/A to "Go to Hell" and the Captain to "Go to Hell". After the Captain announced a delay, we applauded as the Federal Marshall escorted the couple off the plane. All three instances I've seen individuals forcibly removed from flights were coach passengers and everytime, it was at on AA at DFW.

No matter the class of service you still enjoy an empty seat next to you.

If you want First Class then pay for it with cash or with upgrades.

I fly AirTran a lot and they give the best of both world. ANYONE with ANY TICKET can upgrade for $25 to first class. That's reasonable and fair. Can you imagine if all the airlines did that? :-)

- Joe Leader

I wanted to say that I have been accused of being in the wrong seat on one occasion. It was when I was flying First Class on SAA last December. There were some family friends seated in business who I had seen in the lounge and then went back to talk to during the flight. Anyway I sat down in an empty seat and began chatting. A FA came by with drinks and I helped myself to orange juice. Well she took one look at me and went running off to get help. Well there was a great amount of activity from the galley as that FA explained to the head FA that I had just appeared in Business. Anyway the head FA comes back and says to me that I am not able to sit there. I like Merry know what she thinks, but am going to have a little fun at her expense. Anyway so I ask why not an she explains that this is only for Business Class passangers. I respond with the all to classic, but I just want to talk to my friend. She responds that she cannot let me spend another minute there and I MUST return. I say there is no need to get into a state and I will be happy to go back to FIRST class. I think her face nearly fell off. Needless to say that she was sorry.

On another note I always keep my BP on my armrest as much for the person sitting next to me as the FAs. It has become less of a problem over the last couple of years, but when I was younger I was questioned all the time. Now the only question is am I old enough to drink?

On a recent HP flight between EWR-CMH, I was the only passenger in first class when our A-300 took off. (Coach had about 40 pax.) When the seat belt sign was turned off, two coach passengers parted the curtain and settled into 3E&F with flight attendant approval. As we deplaned, I noticed that 3F wore an HP employee badge. I infer from their passionate embraces inflight that 3E must have been a VERY good friend.

This week's WSJ has an interesting story of somebody who on his own just moves from Y to F. Interesting that they used his name in the article! They compared this practice to going through toll booths without paying the toll and leaving a gas station without paying for gas.

globalflight, you should have told the F/A you were seated in First Class before waiting for eviction. Having a little fun at her expense (your words), was just plain rude.



[This message has been edited by JSrombough (edited 09-04-2000).]

I don't necessarily agree - if I thought, in such a situation, that the FA was making an unwarranted intrusion on me, I'd be perfectly willing to cause him/her embarrassment to teach a lesson ... and possibly even for my own amusement.

However: if I were sitting in biz and the FA had asked if I had a right to be there, I'd have corrected any misimpression right away; but as it appears that in globalflight's case there was no feeler, and the FA's (rude) action was probably triggered by the perception (youth <> business class), I think that the FA forfeited the right to a polite response.

i find it amazing the amount of 'entitlements' that are expected for whatever unjustified reason. between self help upgrades, which i have never witnessed, and the threads on the united board over who should get what bonus miles because of their on time performance this summer, i am shocked at the moaning.

we vote with our dollars, period. there is a choice, even if it is limited, even if it is with an airline you wouldn't normally fly even if they were the only one (america west for me!).

when i talked to customer service at ual, they offered vouchers and upgrade coupons all of which i denied except for a token 1-segment upgrade. when asked what i wanted, i responsed "i want my flights to be on time". being reliable is the number 1 priority, everything else is second.

no one is owed first class even if it is empty. do i blame the airlines for this? sure i do. uncomfortable seats, crammed together, marginal food, high prices, late flights, labor problems, lost bags, i could go on. there is a lot that needs to be done. i send letters to ual every so often with a suggestion based on an experience that i have, either positive or negative. maybe they implement it, maybe they don't.

point here, if you want to sit in first, request the upgrade, buy the coupons if you dont have any, ask for a comp, etc. if you dont get it, so what, at least you may get to your destination on time.

f