Can someone earn points for me?

This seems to be more and more the norm here, which is unfortunate. I, myself, was a lurker for about 6 months before I signed up and first posted here, because I read every thread for every program I was interested in before I asked a single question.

So, for those people new here, please do your own due diligence here first. FT can be a VERY helpful and kind group of people, if you put forth effort first. We are not here to spoonfeed newbies. I was a newbie not long ago also, but I did not get spoonfed, nor did I want to be. I wanted to pull my own weight and contribute back to FT. Asking questions in a thread that were answered less than 20 posts before means you didn't read the thread, and don't deserve an answer, otherwise it would be spoonfeeding you. Don't start a new thread for a topic that was covered in the first couple pages of threads. That's laziness.

So if you are too lazy to read and learn for yourself from others, then this probably isn't the forum for you.

My theory is that FT has been getting a lot more attention in more mainstream press for easy ways to travel for free - so folks looking for a "quick buck" are showing up much more frequently now.

Used to be a more self-selecting crowd. More people were actually frequent travelers looking to augment what they were already earning.

Well said DavidAL. ^ Some would say deserving of a sticky.

Everyone complains about the "FT attitude" but what can you expect when this keeps happening multiple times a day. I'm still trying to understand why an unspecific job thread is still located in the MilesBuzz section.

Part II for the existing discussion?

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/talkb...ies-blogs.html

Oh for crying out loud. I have never understood the concept of, "Nobody helped me so I'll be expletive deleted if I help anyone else." If you don't want to answer some question you think stupid from the great heights of your six months of experience as a frequent flyer, ignore it and let it drop. Problem solved. For the record: Flyertalk forums are badly designed. Useful threads go on for dozens if not hundreds of comments, and they contain tons of outdated info and broken links. It is not realistic to ask a newbie to read a thread of that length. That isn't how people learn, and it isn't how the human brain works. The hazing culture of Flyertalk is not the good part about Flyertalk. Why pretend that it is? I'm sorry you were hazed. I try to make some time on a regular basis to give a hand up to newbies...because I was once given a hand up...but I'm only one person. But always keep in mind, if your Mom had your attitude toward spoonfeeding, you'd still be in diapers. Learning is a chain of knowledge that includes hands-on wisdom passed on from those who have gone before, and nobody learns anything of value completely on their own. Nobody. Not Einstein himself. NOBODY.

Long threads stink, and MANY sites close long threads and start new ones. In fact, I would say that Flyertalk is in the minority with its policy of just endlessly tacking on to the end of long threads, and it is part and parcel of the deliberate policy of hazing.

Make the thread hard to read, make the info hard to find...and then claim there's something wrong with the newbie? Nope, the problem is that the structure is badly designed for communicating information clearly. The newbie has done nothing whatsoever wrong other than have a real life with genuine interests and responsibilities that take time.

As a noob who has spent countless hours weeding through threads with 150 pages, I see where peachfront is going. However, coming from the legal profession, I'm used to being put through the wringer in the name of tradition, even if it's not the most efficient way to accomplish things. Call me a glutton for punishment, but I have no problem reading 71-page cases from 1895 (English was odd back then) and pulling out the one paragraph that I need. Plus, I get to bill for it.

At the same time, I haven't really dealt with the hazing aspect of the forum, yet, other than receiving a PM or two telling me to show that I've done some reading before asking questions.

Despite the length of the truly useful threads, there is an effort to organize things into the stickies in a useful manner. For example, beltway's work in the Hilton forum is invaluable and saved me days worth of searching. UA Fan's upkeep of the credit card offers sticky is another example.

While a feature like FatWallet's "Member Summary" would be helpful, I think the mods here are working hard enough as is and doing a decent job. It's not that hard to find what you need, here.

I'm a bit torn by this. I'll occasionally answer a simple question, but some of the questions are so dumb and exhibit such a reluctance to do basic research that they just don't deserve an answer. For instance, if somebody comes in at post 4500 of the bluebird thread and asks "How does this work?" I'm not going to waste my time with them.

Andyandy

At what point did using a search engine and reading posts become 'hard'?

And their life and time is more important than that of the people who've already gone thru the effort of provide information previously?


There's a big difference between asking how to use the information you've pulled from spending time here and putting forth genuine effort vs simply asking people to put everything in easy to digest soundbites for you because you don't want to bother doing it yourself.

That's what the blogs are for!

Peach, I wasn't hazed here, I just didn't have a sense of entitlement that I thought everyone here should tell me all they know without first trying to learn it myself. I've helped plenty of people via PM's who's tried to learn on their own. It's the people that don't bother searching for information that bothers me since they feel like we should all stop what we're doing and help them. It's a sense of entitlement that really irks me.

Moral of the story, if you're new here, don't be afraid, we were all new here once. But don't ask stupid questions and try to contribute, not just be a leach.

And a perfectly good explanation for why many folks keep going to the blogs rather than staying here to get their questions answered. Can't have it both ways--can't beat on newbies who ask seemingly inane questions and then wonder why the blogs keep spilling information.

It's a form of supply and demand: we keep supplying the blogs with newbies who demand the information.

I've got a general format for answering these types of questions. I don't simply beat on the poster--I generally cite a link (I know I've referenced ol' post #2 from the Citi AA 75K thread as much as anyone here) that will lead a poster to the answer plus give some framework for deeper knowledge. Although the internet is an ephemeral thing, I figure that if anyone else ever stumbles onto my reply, they'll get some useful information--instead of just "do a search!"

And, peachfront has a point. When you've been here for awhile, finding information becomes a whole lot easier than if you've just stumbled onto the site. Many times, we know a poster will get his question answered and never return--that's just the way the internet is. Some folks will start digging in deeper and become useful contributors. I think we should be trying to increase the ratio of the latter to the former.

In something of a defense of newbies... many of us "traditional" FT members have highly analytical careers. We have been trained over decades to process vast amounts of information quickly and efficiently. So skimming a dozen long threads is nothing in comparison.

Quite a few folks lately seem to come from trades where those skills are less emphasized. It's just going to take more time to take it all in if you're not used to that sort of situation.

Those who are willing to stretch themselves even a little will find the help they need here, regardless.