Totally OT, but ugh, tell me about it. Taking the wife to Europe next year, and while I do live in a *A city, I can't get anything convenient that doesn't require gobs of fees and fuel surcharges. UA with the free date changes even for non-status and taxes only was a real winner. I booked early, and didn't have to try to get seats I wanted -- J in both directions, on dates I wanted. The only downside is I couldn't get the non-stop to AMS, had to take SK through CPH. No complaints, really.

While your last statement is true, your introduction isn't so much. I find SPG points more valuable for mid-tier, or more specifically, low- and mid- Category redemptions. In Asia, this isn't synonymous for "not a top hotel." I've stayed at nice places on points. Same can even be true in Europe.

However, for top Category hotels, particularly expensive hotels, nothing beats AXON Hilton awards. Category 6 & 7 SPG redemptions are pretty much a no-go.

I live in a *A hub, so I can reach many cities through one stop. There's actually a huge number of hubs and what not that I can visit -- sure, many times you'll get stuck with FRA, but this time around, we're visiting CPH and VIE, two places not at the top of the *A connection list.

Do you really consider Rome to be an "airport city"? I don't. The only you would I guess is if you're flying Alitalia, and they're not exactly at the top of everybody's "must fly" list.

Personally, 4-5 nights is our sweet spot. We really like being able to unpack for more than a day or two and get a real chance to explore a place. One of our favorites was a six-night stay at the Bali Hyatt -- I thought we would get bored, but far from it. That said, I'd only want to stay this long in a place you can get out and about easily.

What I meant by an "airport city" is the city that I flew to, because it's only city in (that part of) the country that I could get to (using my preferred airline or alliance, at least). I have lifetime status with AA so if they go there they tend to me preferred airline, and from getting that lifetime status (back when they counted all miles from all sources), I have zillions of AA miles, so oneworld is my preferred alliance. (LAX is a hub for AA/oneworld, but more facing the Pacific than Europe.)

So I meant Rome as "airport city" for me because I can fly AA all the way there (and use their upgrade instruments if applicable to me, which I can't on partner airlines). So I fly to Rome one year and then head by train south to Naples through the Amalfi Coast. Another time I might fly to Rome and then head by train north to Florence. So for me, Rome is the "airport city" that I expect to fly to repeatedly for various detinations in (at least that part of) Italy. I'm not going to take a longer routing to fly directly to Naples one time, fly directly to Florence another time, etc.

Similarly, I flew to Milan (because AA flies there all the way on their own metal) on a recent trip where my main goal was Venice. (I could fly to Venice but that we require changing to BA in London. And besides Vencie was not my only destination on that trip, even if it was the main goal.) But I expect to go back to northeastern Italy because I didn't get to see all the cities there I wanted, so I'll be flying to Milan again probably sometime.

(Thus for me Rome is not the "airport city" necessarily for all of Italy, but it would the one for much of Italy, with Milan just for northern Italy.)

Similary, I'm not going to be able to take a plane directly to Fuji Five Lakes region in Japan (no airport there even!). So I take a plane to Tokyo. On another trip, I may be visiting another rurul-ish area in Japan, but again, my airline flies me (in this case nonstop from my home airport LAX) to Tokyo, so it makes to again fly to Tokyo and then connect there (quite likely again with ground transport).

Similarly, I can get a nonstop from LAX to LHR, and it's easy to rent a car there. So on a previous trip I flew to LHR, but apart from a day or two at the start and end of the trip in actual London, I rented a car and toured the Cotswolds plus "Hengeland" (what I call the area with Stonehenge, Woodhenge, etc, along with Avebury and Silbury Hill). But on another trip I'll fly to London but visit other nearby places like Bath or the Lakes Region. So London is my "airport city" (I'm not going to find a plane flight from the US to "Hengeland", not likely a good routine to near the Costwolds, and not likely a good routing to Bath, so from the standpoint of flying I'll keep repeating London as the "airport city" even though I spend most of the trip off in one direction or another from London, by ground transport of one kind or another).

So to me the "airport city" is the city I might fly to repeatedly, for multiple ground tranport trips (to different final destinations each time) onward from there.

And since I'm going to fly there repeatedly, I don't need to see everything in that city the very first time I'm there.

It's not just about value of points and the ease of earning them. I love SPG and stay in a SPG property whenever possible. But the biggest problem with SPG is that there are so many places where there are no SPG hotels.

I guess this has really helped the OP )))

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/miles...n-renewal.html

looks like this is also a great option. 40k renewal points, 5 points on normal purchurse. The redeem requirement is as high as Hilton, but it gives a free night on only 2 nights stay. 5th night free is not common but 2nd night free is way more easier to get. Looks like a good everyday spend card. any thoughts? The hotels are less than spg and hilton tho.

If what interests you the most is the 1 night free on 2+ night stays, be aware that even the no-annual-fee version (which comes with a lower bonus points) has that.

See this thread in the Club Carlson forum for more discussion on the mefits of the 3 different teyps of Club Carlson cards (highest annual fee for most points, lower annual fee for medium points, or no annual fee for least points, but 1 night free on 2+ night stays with all of them, and one or both of the annual fee cards give you Gold status, which some people think is worth nothing but other people disagree:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/club-...l#post19781283

Can you have more than 1 Hilton Visa at a time ? I've churned it a few times over the years but I also use it everywhere AMEX is not accepted including some monthly bills on autopay.................a pain to cancel the card and set everything up again so I have only done it MAYBE 3 times in 10 years

Thanks for pointing this out! Great info to me. I am considering this card. I think the 5 points will make a difference if I am going to use it everyday. But I need to consider that. Thanks for the info anyway!

I'm a huge fan of Hilton with some huge values stays both past, present and future including Conrad Singapore, Hilton New York, Homewood Suites Tremblant, Waldorf Astoria Park City and Conrad Maldives.

That said clearly 1 SPG is worth more than 1 HH point. In fact in very simple terms, I can convert 20,000 SPG points into 25,000 Virgin Atlantic points, and then convert those into 50,000 Hilton points. So in fact, 1 SPG point is worth exactly 2.5 HH points.

Ironically this means SPG can often be the best source of cheap Hilton stays. Using the above examples, our stay at Waldorf Astoria Park City is 45k HH per night, or 18k SPG, compared to the St Regis Deer Valley down the road at 30k per night. Or the Conrad Maldives is 37.5k HH per night, or a stunning 15k SPG per night, again compared to the W Maldives which is also just up the road (if by road you mean inner ocean of the Baa Atoll) runs at 90k per night. Yes you read that last one right

Find these discussions on what is more valuable or even the worth of each point very interesting.

If you earn the majority of points via Card Churn or other methods (like Vanilla Reload) then why not have points in more than just one program - and this applies to Airlines too.

I am an EP on AA but am so glad for all the UR points I have - that is getting 7 of us to Bangkok for X'mas when AA couldn't. In my opinion the same goes for hotel coverage.

I love my SPG points but the Hilton portfolio has so much coverage. I like collecting my points for specific hotels. For e.g. I like my IHG points for staying at the Z Ocean South Beach Hotel which I think is one of the best use of Priority Club points. Similarly the Hilton in Moorea on an Axon rate is an unbelievable deal especially if you are Gold or higher as you get free Wifi and Breakfast which is expensive in Tahiti.

But then SPG has some great steals for hotels - for e.g. we are staying at the Le Meridien Chiang Mai in Thailand for 3-4K points/night.

Again I don't get the obsession with the value of points when it can vary so much as to where you are going, what status you have (Hilton Gold might be easy to get but it has better benefits than SPG gold in my opinion) and all the other things like 5th night free, AXON, SPG points conversion to Airlines etc.

I don't have a Hilton Visa -- I have a Hilton Amex and 2 BOA/BOH Hawaiian Air cards that transfer to HHonors points.

Ah, totally forgot about this. It is like the old days when AA miles to HHonor points at the 1 to 2 ratio. Except now it is going thru Virgin Atlantic.

Though some here would continue to argue till their faces turn blue, that 1 SPG pt worth more than 1 HH pt in absolute value. I dont know how the person can do with the absolute value based on the examples you cited above.

To me, that argument of absolute value is of No Value at all in all practical purposes which are, how to get the most out of your points, or with the least cost of points to get the most of your hotel stays.