Are bloggers ruining Flyertalk????
May 9, 2012, 4:04 am
#181
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,129
Was anyone blogging about the real BA 100k offer? Not that 20k spend rubbish.
May 9, 2012, 4:50 am
#182
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: back to my roots in Scotland!
Programs: Tamsin - what else is there to say?
Posts: 47,843
I'm sure this has been said many times already, but reading a few of the ill-conceived "defense" of blogs is just irritating and i like to hear myself talk, as do most of you, obviously, so here goes.
yes, many of us benefit from blogs.
yes, blogs that get a lot of traffic ruin deals. here's why.
many people are inherently lazy or aren't interested in travel to the point that most FTers are (but everyone loves a deal!). if a blogger does the work and mines through 20 pages of FT topics, carefully selecting choice deals-- then writes out the steps one by one (with screenshots!), they essentially give deal/trick access to the billions of dumb and/or lazy (myself included) people out there, who in turn share it with friends and extended families of dumb and/or lazy people. case in point: read the comments of many of the blog entries out there. "how i search for _______ ????? how i do this???" yeah. there are people who are even dumb and or lazy too make it work when it's written out for them.
and here is why i can totally commiserate with the FTers who have been on this board for ages.
yes, the info is free and open to the public. but the INTENT of sharing this info was never to have information go viral. it was to share it among a community of like-minded people, and there were silent "rules" in place that you would get called out on (e.g. try not to call the credit card company asking about workarounds because it MIGHT just be possible the company isn't aware of said workaround- i've seen people doing just that, in blog comments too)
when you break these deals out of the community and put it into a nice package for everyone (let's call them normies) on a regular basis, the consequences are two fold (and probably a gajillion fold): more people = things sell out faster (which honestly isn't the biggest issue here), and you put that info into the hands of a population that doesn't understand what discretion is, and doesn't care what the consequences are if they abuse it. exhibit A: oh you mean I can message Chase repeatedly and ask them to bump my 25k bonus to a 30k bonus that wasn't even a real promotion in the first place?? let's everybody message them at once, I really need those 5k points!
so regardless of what is ethical or practical, the fact that bloggers take the original intent of this board and take it to a whole. notha. leval-- the fact that they make dolla dolla billz off of it-- and the fact that their readers indirectly notify credit/banking companies of every post (ergo killing deals left and right)...
THAT is what is irritating for most folks and i really don't see how you can argue against the fact that, to the FTers who find the deals, and make nothing from it, it is almost as annoying as when you sit next to someone on the airplane and they start expelling gas, and they think you can't hear it except you can totally hear it. also it smells. that isn't a challenge to prove me wrong by the way so don't spout your fallacies at me, i don't care.
and some of those comments were jokes and hyperboles. see if you can find them all.
yes, many of us benefit from blogs.
yes, blogs that get a lot of traffic ruin deals. here's why.
many people are inherently lazy or aren't interested in travel to the point that most FTers are (but everyone loves a deal!). if a blogger does the work and mines through 20 pages of FT topics, carefully selecting choice deals-- then writes out the steps one by one (with screenshots!), they essentially give deal/trick access to the billions of dumb and/or lazy (myself included) people out there, who in turn share it with friends and extended families of dumb and/or lazy people. case in point: read the comments of many of the blog entries out there. "how i search for _______ ????? how i do this???" yeah. there are people who are even dumb and or lazy too make it work when it's written out for them.
and here is why i can totally commiserate with the FTers who have been on this board for ages.
yes, the info is free and open to the public. but the INTENT of sharing this info was never to have information go viral. it was to share it among a community of like-minded people, and there were silent "rules" in place that you would get called out on (e.g. try not to call the credit card company asking about workarounds because it MIGHT just be possible the company isn't aware of said workaround- i've seen people doing just that, in blog comments too)
when you break these deals out of the community and put it into a nice package for everyone (let's call them normies) on a regular basis, the consequences are two fold (and probably a gajillion fold): more people = things sell out faster (which honestly isn't the biggest issue here), and you put that info into the hands of a population that doesn't understand what discretion is, and doesn't care what the consequences are if they abuse it. exhibit A: oh you mean I can message Chase repeatedly and ask them to bump my 25k bonus to a 30k bonus that wasn't even a real promotion in the first place?? let's everybody message them at once, I really need those 5k points!
so regardless of what is ethical or practical, the fact that bloggers take the original intent of this board and take it to a whole. notha. leval-- the fact that they make dolla dolla billz off of it-- and the fact that their readers indirectly notify credit/banking companies of every post (ergo killing deals left and right)...
THAT is what is irritating for most folks and i really don't see how you can argue against the fact that, to the FTers who find the deals, and make nothing from it, it is almost as annoying as when you sit next to someone on the airplane and they start expelling gas, and they think you can't hear it except you can totally hear it. also it smells. that isn't a challenge to prove me wrong by the way so don't spout your fallacies at me, i don't care.
and some of those comments were jokes and hyperboles. see if you can find them all.
The VS Gold offer was a great example of a deal which was killed unnecessarily by bloggers.
VS Gold has limited appeal. It's really only of use if you actually fly VS - there is a bit of reciprocity between VS and BD and VS and SQ, but not a lot. Nevertheless, one of the US blogs picked up on it after it had been found by a VS FTer and posted it to all and sundry, which meant an offer which would probably have escaped under the radar on the rather quiet VS forum and a larger number of active VS flyers could have benefitted, closed in around 24 hours.
For a while afterwards we had US based flyers going 'What can we do with VS Gold?' to which we'd have to explain to them 'nothing'. But it was a shiny card so they'd gone for it simply because of that and only afterwards realised that it actually didn't mean anything. But in doing so, they got the deal closed down early for those who could have used it and benefitted.
Excuse me if I'm angry that a bunch of greedy, ignorant lazy people took a deal they knew nothing about but went for it because it was posted as a 'DEAL!', were not able to gain any benefit from it, but in doing so, ruined it for those who could have taken advantage of it.
Still, I'm sure their children enjoyed the benefit of looking at a shiny gold card
Oh yes, VS don't usually even send out the card until you have actually flown them... 
And to be honest, the guys who take out the BA Chase cards, without taking the time and trouble to understand the programme, and then come to whine to the BA board about how awful it is and how they've somehow been swindled
are not presenting the best impression to the British FTers of the group of US based blog-readers who read blogs....So forgive me if I don't see the blogs as a positive move. While I know and like some of the bloggers on this thread personally, it does not mean that I think what they are doing is a good idea. And here's another thought. Some of the bloggers are terribly knowledgeable - but why should they post that knowledge on FT, when they can use it to drive people to their blogs? So I think we are much less likely to see the analysis and discussion from the bloggers that once they would have contributed to FT, because they can post it on their own blogs.
May 9, 2012, 5:26 am
#183
Join Date: Jun 2010
Programs: Whatever's Cheapest, Accruing Miles, Redeeming for Premium Cabins, Not Chasing Status Unnecessarily
Posts: 2,264
There is no alternative to the free flow of information with the way the internet and world are today.
You can't have it both ways:
-Either people can share and post information
-People choose not to share and post information
As long as there is an internet, there will be viral spread of ways to save money.
The elitists on here are really just nostalgic for the old times when there were fewer people interested in miles/points/travel hacking and sad that good deals and techniques are lost.
Nobody can control the internet and viral spread of deals.
It's kind of like how I feel about racing to get Black Friday specials like decent quality blankets for $2.
You can't have it both ways:
-Either people can share and post information
-People choose not to share and post information
As long as there is an internet, there will be viral spread of ways to save money.
The elitists on here are really just nostalgic for the old times when there were fewer people interested in miles/points/travel hacking and sad that good deals and techniques are lost.
Nobody can control the internet and viral spread of deals.
It's kind of like how I feel about racing to get Black Friday specials like decent quality blankets for $2.
May 9, 2012, 5:49 am
#184
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: CHA/TYS
Programs: The Mac Daddy of Heimlich County (and low-ball status)
Posts: 2,868
no kidding! odds are, the "devaluing" or switch to Avios has actually helped the majority of those that use FT. 4.5k points is an incredible value for a 1-way short-haul.
May 9, 2012, 6:02 am
#185
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: PSM
Posts: 69,232
I forgot about tax breaks. Bloggers who quit their day jobs and blog full time (not sure about part time) are not only getting referral and Google ad revenue but they are writing off personal travel as job expenses so essentially they are travelling free.
Or do they file tax returns? Most of them use pseudonyms, does the IRS have any way of tracking stuff like that? I certainly hope so!
Or do they file tax returns? Most of them use pseudonyms, does the IRS have any way of tracking stuff like that? I certainly hope so!
There are some awfully wide nets being cast in this thread. It is an ugly, ugly thing.
May 9, 2012, 6:04 am
#186
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: CHA/TYS
Programs: The Mac Daddy of Heimlich County (and low-ball status)
Posts: 2,868
There are some that are still very helpful. I like Loyalty Traveler for his hotel-only posts and some of the in-depth charts he's made, and TPG will do this SOMEtimes, but not often. WA has some good tools that I have used a couple of times.
what REALLY sets me off as how much they pimp each others' blogs - especially giving credit to another blogger who just rips crap off FT and arranges it more aesthetically. Then they give zero credit for those that really came up with the deal or introduced something fresh or newsworthy.
what REALLY sets me off as how much they pimp each others' blogs - especially giving credit to another blogger who just rips crap off FT and arranges it more aesthetically. Then they give zero credit for those that really came up with the deal or introduced something fresh or newsworthy.
May 9, 2012, 7:19 am
#187
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 17,422
I don't know how old you are, but I vividly remember all the grocery coupons used back in the 70s. I've never seen that level of coupon usage since then. In fact, it's a very infrequent sight for me to see anyone else in a grocery store using coupons.
This current fixation on travel deals will pass.
This current fixation on travel deals will pass.
Like with the frequent flyer blogs, the net result of this activity isn't bad or good -- just different. If there's a good sale at your supermarket, the item is now more likely to be sold out because the grocery blogs tell folks how to get it for free. On the otherhand, if you find a blog that covers the supermarket you shop in, 5 minutes of effort in reading that blog and printing out a few coupons will probably save you $10 or $20 a week on groceries.
I guess this is "progress" in the internet age.
May 9, 2012, 7:37 am
#188
Join Date: May 2007
Location: DFW
Programs: WN A+, AA, HYATT DIAMOND, SPG
Posts: 1,125
There is a difference in the way most FT'ers handle a deal. FT is a labrynth and hard to pin down on certain issues. A few people post about a deal but it's rarely all spelled out with screen shots and an invitation to exploit. FT is huge and so much is going on at any one given moment, most deals remain on the very back burners.
OTOH I've seen many of the bloggers spell it out completely with screenshots and detailed instructions. This is foolishness, IMO. And again, it's their deal of the day. More bloggers hop on too making it more and more prominent.
Have there been deals that were shut down from FT? Sure. But I can tell you this for certain... when a company sees their name associated with a "here's how you exploit said company" blogger post, that will certainly cause them to shut it down. They ARE watching the bloggers because it's easier than working the labrynth known as FT. The deals are spelled out and in very plain sight, made simple with screenshots and instructions. And never underestimate the power of embarrassment. It's embarrassing to see your company out there with loopholes the size of mack trucks and everyone lining up to drive through.
When it's all spelled out in plain sight it's easy for whoever is charged with monitoring the web to say to their overlords, "Look at what they're doing" and then they are forced to shut it down.
Ancient Wisdom: The fool tells everything he knows, while the wise man conceals his most precious wisdom.
Thanks to the OP for posting. Great job of saying what many of us were already thinking.
May 9, 2012, 8:16 am
#189
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: New York, NY
Programs: The Golden status boy
Posts: 854
I'm torn on the issue...
In one sense, bloggers are like a restaurant using Ragu for their pasta sauce. They are simply taking what has already been made for them, repackaging it and selling it for a profit. Their only effort is purchasing the jar, opening it up and serving it hot. They assume no risk and reap the benefits of someone else's work while being lauded for their "efforts".
In the other sense, bloggers repackage the information in a way non travel elitists can understand. Take a mattress run for example. Trying to explain the concept of paying for a hotel room locally, and not actually staying in it for a future benefit, is lost on a lot of people. FT is a community where those with an advanced understanding of benefits congregate. Bloggers do a service by breaking it down in laymans terms for others to jump on the deal. In this respect, it gets people passionate about travel because the seemingly impossible now becomes possible. I don't see much wrong with that. It's not like FT is globally known for its willingness to break down the game film for people that aren't as knowledgeable to benefit from a deal.
Look, we're all "Woodward and Bernstein" when it comes to great deals. Everyone here wants to be the first to break the code and receive the accolades for such. Otherwise, we wouldn't have subforums such as "Hotel Deals" or "Miles Buzz" where the intent is to post such discoveries. FT is an open, free community on the internet. With that comes an assumed risk that others may plagerize your work and claim it as their own.
This is an open forum, more like Sam's Club than a velvet rope.
In one sense, bloggers are like a restaurant using Ragu for their pasta sauce. They are simply taking what has already been made for them, repackaging it and selling it for a profit. Their only effort is purchasing the jar, opening it up and serving it hot. They assume no risk and reap the benefits of someone else's work while being lauded for their "efforts".
In the other sense, bloggers repackage the information in a way non travel elitists can understand. Take a mattress run for example. Trying to explain the concept of paying for a hotel room locally, and not actually staying in it for a future benefit, is lost on a lot of people. FT is a community where those with an advanced understanding of benefits congregate. Bloggers do a service by breaking it down in laymans terms for others to jump on the deal. In this respect, it gets people passionate about travel because the seemingly impossible now becomes possible. I don't see much wrong with that. It's not like FT is globally known for its willingness to break down the game film for people that aren't as knowledgeable to benefit from a deal.
Look, we're all "Woodward and Bernstein" when it comes to great deals. Everyone here wants to be the first to break the code and receive the accolades for such. Otherwise, we wouldn't have subforums such as "Hotel Deals" or "Miles Buzz" where the intent is to post such discoveries. FT is an open, free community on the internet. With that comes an assumed risk that others may plagerize your work and claim it as their own.
This is an open forum, more like Sam's Club than a velvet rope.
May 9, 2012, 8:21 am
#190
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: NYC.
Programs: Hyatt Platinum, SPG Gold, HHonors Gold, MileagePlus Silver & Others.
Posts: 222
Why is that any of your business? I have a (very small and minor) travel blog, am not going to be posting credit card links or whatever, but my day job remains my day job. This question is, quite literally, none of your business.
The standard way this internet accusation works: person A claims person B is making money from source C. Person B says that's not true, person A says, "Well, how do you make your money?" If person B answers, then Person A (or a sockpuppet) ridicules person B's profession (and, sometimes, as a bonus, calls to the employer -- or clients -- to complain and get the person fired). If person B doesn't answer, then person A (or a sockpuppet) makes it look like person B's lying.
I'd like to believe you're not that person A, but I've been around the internet too damn long.
Which is fine, if they so choose to disclose.
But you said full-time job, and, given that you don't have access to the bloggers' hourly schedules, I thought you might have seen their financials.
Since now you've established that you're just pulling part of your information out of /dev/null, we can proceed from there.
The standard way this internet accusation works: person A claims person B is making money from source C. Person B says that's not true, person A says, "Well, how do you make your money?" If person B answers, then Person A (or a sockpuppet) ridicules person B's profession (and, sometimes, as a bonus, calls to the employer -- or clients -- to complain and get the person fired). If person B doesn't answer, then person A (or a sockpuppet) makes it look like person B's lying.
I'd like to believe you're not that person A, but I've been around the internet too damn long.
Which is fine, if they so choose to disclose.
But you said full-time job, and, given that you don't have access to the bloggers' hourly schedules, I thought you might have seen their financials.
Since now you've established that you're just pulling part of your information out of /dev/null, we can proceed from there.
Too much inane name-calling and other idiocy going on in this thread and for some reason the bloggers are feeling defensive, as if they had to answer to this peanut-gallery of myopic cry-babies. Insults like "leeches" are being hurled about at the level of discourse of the current presidential elections. Maybe that's why the thread got started! They can't string enough sentences together to put up their own blog and they are just jealous. 
May 9, 2012, 9:23 am
#192
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 5
There's something to be said for learning things naturally. A little knowledge can be very dangerous...
Learning naturally and broadly: starting from the beginning and working your way upward in knowledge is best for newbies long-term and is best for the continued health of deals for everyone and is best for building a long-term, sustainable community.
This natural learning process does not rule out blogs. In fact, I have seen some blogs admirably fill the role of doing an excellent job of teaching the basics in an easy to understand format.
ETA: A big thanks to all of those that have done that for me.
Learning naturally and broadly: starting from the beginning and working your way upward in knowledge is best for newbies long-term and is best for the continued health of deals for everyone and is best for building a long-term, sustainable community.
This natural learning process does not rule out blogs. In fact, I have seen some blogs admirably fill the role of doing an excellent job of teaching the basics in an easy to understand format.
ETA: A big thanks to all of those that have done that for me.
Got my SW comp pass reading blogs. Travel to medical residency interviews became super cheap for my husband and I. With already thousands in loans for training, it sure is nice to save $ with this game.
I will gladly click through credit card links for saving me time and money.
*cue flame
May 9, 2012, 9:27 am
#193
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Maryland
Programs: SPG plat,Hyatt plat, HH Gold, AA Gold, WN A list, IHG Plat, Delta pittance
Posts: 64
2 cents (before devaluation)
I have been lurking since last year, and only recently posted a bit. I have found FT and some of the blogs to be very helpful. I will never do a mileage run, but I do like to get points to help take my nieces on trips with me. I have also had to use them for family medical emergencies. No high aspirations here, I guess.
I remember a post on the Slickdeals site lamenting the good 'ol days that reminds me of this thread. There will always be people who use and abuse the knowledge of others.
One thing I do like about the blogs is that (for some of them) I get to see how the use of points helps someone personally. Or I see a good analysis (like Loyalty Traveler) that helps me decide if some "deal" is right for me. One other thing that makes blogs easier, is that I have seen some people ask questions and not be treated nicely here, so blogs are safer for some people to ask their questions.
I have made some choices to obtain points without getting crazy about it. I guess some people who are out to grab everything and anything they can get, regardless of real benefit, will pose a problem.
I am sure some deals are kept within certain circles, and I don't have a problem with that. I am glad for what people care to share, and know it has been helpful in my life. I see both sides here, but don't really have any suggestions other than people avoiding "leech" blogs.
I remember a post on the Slickdeals site lamenting the good 'ol days that reminds me of this thread. There will always be people who use and abuse the knowledge of others.
One thing I do like about the blogs is that (for some of them) I get to see how the use of points helps someone personally. Or I see a good analysis (like Loyalty Traveler) that helps me decide if some "deal" is right for me. One other thing that makes blogs easier, is that I have seen some people ask questions and not be treated nicely here, so blogs are safer for some people to ask their questions.
I have made some choices to obtain points without getting crazy about it. I guess some people who are out to grab everything and anything they can get, regardless of real benefit, will pose a problem.
I am sure some deals are kept within certain circles, and I don't have a problem with that. I am glad for what people care to share, and know it has been helpful in my life. I see both sides here, but don't really have any suggestions other than people avoiding "leech" blogs.
May 9, 2012, 9:29 am
#194
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Finally back in Boston after escaping from New York
Posts: 13,644
Seriously, I may be the luckiest traveler in the world, but I can't remember the last time I had a misbehaving child on one of my flights. From some posts on FT, you'd think that there are bouncy houses in F.
I've been thinking about this also.
Would anybody be interested in helping to set up and maintain a blog with credit card referrals (and whatever else we decide to blog about, travel related, I for one would love to have my own infrequent column there) and donate all the profits back to our community based charities, like kiva (as a charity) and Jason Dahl Foundation, etc? It would all be run openly reporting back results to the community as permitted by agreements, etc.
Would anybody be interested in helping to set up and maintain a blog with credit card referrals (and whatever else we decide to blog about, travel related, I for one would love to have my own infrequent column there) and donate all the profits back to our community based charities, like kiva (as a charity) and Jason Dahl Foundation, etc? It would all be run openly reporting back results to the community as permitted by agreements, etc.
Okay, here's the deal: It's great that we have a place like FT to pass around ideas, info, deals, etc. And it's great that the bloggers have a place, too. If it's on FT, it's probably also on SD, FW, etc. I don't see any harm in that. People will abuse deals no matter where they find them.
As for the credit card referrals, I view that as an entirely separate issue, since those deals aren't particularly "hidden." If I have a blogger who provides me info on a credit card that I didn't know, I'll absolutely use their referral link.
There's lots of ways to kill FT, but this isn't one of them. Personally, the biggest turn-offs for me has been all the personal attacks and snarkiness throughout the forums.
Oh, and before somebody says, "He's just a blogger looking for cash and benefits," please note that A) My blog has nothing to do with travel (although the coupon ladies and men might like it), I average about 30 visitors per day and I earned $4.23 last month from it, so I'm not exactly going to be quitting my day job anytime soon.
Of course, I do have a blog ready to go once I get fired from my current day job which will be tangentially related to travel, so there will be plenty of time to go after me in the future...
Mike
May 9, 2012, 9:48 am
#195
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 33
Actually, the "grocery coupon game" has been impacted by bloggers much the way the frequent flyer game is impacted. Frankly, the two topics attract much the same personality types: gamers. It's just that the flyertalkers play for big prizes (like first class tickets to Europe), and the "coupon ladies" are generally satisfied by getting free toothpaste. Just like in the frequent flyer world, there has been explosion of "mommy sites" in the coupon world that tell you how to find coupons (many on the web) and match them up with sales at your local supermarkets.
I was thinking the same thing, that frequent flyer boards remind me of coupon boards just on a much bigger scale. - I have been a member of a coupon board for years, which had wonderful deals and profitable secrets... it became more populated through bloggers, and the economic downturn, and the deals watered down or sold out instantly.
Things changed and you couldn't buy GCs with store GCs, you couldn't use expireds, you couldn't special order sale items, etc. Old-timers complain about newbies but profit from their research all the same.
Personally - I'm happy for people to get deals. I appreciate the collective conscious of a group. It's a big, big world.