Singular Jaws, unlike yourself...

Jaws >> Take a close look at the people here on FT, of the ones we can gender identify,

A little like kittens? Impossible to tell, and when you guess you're usually wrong??

In my experience with domestic flight attendants, the bottom line may be this: male or female doesn't matter... they've got plenty of sub-standard treatment to go around.

KatW: On a point of order the phrase "Glass Ceiling" was actuallt coined by Marian Wells at a speach to the IoD (Institute of Directors) in London.

Ms. Wells (as I will call her) is of course British.

So not only is your statement "U.S. Business world" misleading but I would question how you can have a business WORLD linked to one country!?

For those of you who don't realise this is a clear attempt on my part to change from a 'sexist' thread to a 'nationalist' thread.
MF

As a sweeping generality, the disparity in treatment of men and women in first and biz classes certainly is something I've noticed. Like TexasFlyer, the first several times I was accorded such I thought I must have been imagining it (it's often difficult for me to believe someone is being out-and-out rude to me!) but after the tenth, twentieth and thirtieth times the pattern clearly was discernable and very real.

What's odd about my own reaction is that I'm a bit of power-house . . . I steam right along rarely acknowledging barriers in my path. But, I've never figured out how to counter effectively unequal treatment in the skies. Ultimately, of course, my main goal in air travel is to get on and off the plane with as little aggravation as possible. I don't want to be a raging ..... yet I loathe collaborating in my own ill treatment.

megamiles reminds me gender isn't alone as a bias.

Jaws -- yes indeedy, there are male and female trees (even, gasp, hermaphrodite trees). Hollies (ilex), for example, require both sexes for fruiting. I'd tread lightly with baobab . . . that's one big tree (metaphorically, of course).

I've got to say I am much enheartened by this boards willingness to hear and vent this discussion. Finest kind of company!

Merry -- Your point of order well taken. Interesting to know the origin of 'glass ceiling.' My hat is off to Wells. Actually, my specificity with regard to 'U.S. business world' was meant to reflect direct knowledge since it is within that realm (?) I function.

I haven't flown in elite cabins abroad much but I've gleaned from this board (including your postings) that outside the U.S., first class can be quite special. So, it occurred to me not to make assumptions; hence, the focus on my direct experience.

Boomer: I for one would appreciate a chivalrous word from a male co-passenger on my behalf to a FA if I were getting sub-par attention. Of course, many of my gender would likely bite your head off for the gesture, no matter how sincere you intention. I sometimes pity men for the double bind women put them through when they attempt to be gentlemanly: ****ed if they do, ****ed if they don't.

My experience in FC has been limited to travel this past year, (and a long time ago when I was a little girl and my dad was an air traffic controller when I got to fly FC A LOT). I have noticed differences in FA attentiveness but not based on gender or attire. The levels of service seem to be a function of the airline: Delta's has been tops; United's sucks.

Samantha

essxjay:

Mine faith in hath been restoreth.

If you happen to see a guy sitting in first class with his head bitten off, just stop by and say hi

I could not respond immediately to KatW's post because honestly I have not paid attention to the treatment between travelers and airline workers. This is an excellent topic (and as my friend BOOMER suggested: a good study for a psychology student.)

But upon reflection: sometimes I see those who get the better service are of the OPPOSITE gender ot the F-A (male F-A's to
Female flyers... and visa versa.)

Frankly, all I want from an F-A is to be courteous, helpful when needed and dont' be afraid to smile.

I believe there is a disparity between treatment of the sexes in First/business.
I don't think its fair, in 1999 it seems stupid to treat a woman first class passenger differently from a man. They both have paid probably a high price for the ticket. They both have traveled too many miles, have too much work to do, leaving families and cats behind. They all seek two basic and similar goals: to get their work done and to GO HOME!!!! CATMAN

While this is only a small part of this thread, I notice a big difference in the way I am treated based on the way I am dressed. I like to travel in jeans and a SF49ers sweatshirt. So what! Does that mean I should be treated any differently? I actually had a UA FA make me prove who I was on board the plane last week because I did "not look like a typical 1K".

Enough rant. I understand and agree totally with this thread, but the issue is not limited to women alone.

Auh2o:

I would have told the FA, sure I'll prove who I am, and can I have the exact spelling of you name. I wouldn't want to get your name spelled wrong when I write the President of the airline to him what a lousy FA you are.

Thanks, guys, for your support. And thanks to all of you for making me realize that I wasn't thinking it was just me in terms of how I was being treated. And I would very much appreciate having one of you guys (youse guys, Catman?) speak up in my behalf. It would be a real giggle if a bunch of us were on the same flight and had some rude FAs and the first time they slighted the sisters, the whole cabin erupted. Uppity Sisters (and Brothers) Unite!

I must reply to this post. I am one of those women travelers who dresses to be comfortable when I fly. I go to the airport in jeans, sneakers, a fleece jacket, and a back pack. I get right into the elite priority line or preferred line, etc. Once I flash that card and they upgrade me, I feel like a queen from there on in. I pre-board, the FAs treat me great. I am usually one of the only passengers that makes it through all of the services. Even if I am the only one having dessert and coffee, the FAs treat me great. They call me by name, etc.

What I do not like is the look that I get from other passengers. They are the rude ones. Not a lot of people like to smile when they travel. The looks that I get sometimes are very condescending.

First Class dress could be it's own thread.

If I am going on a day-trip, or off the plane to a meeting, I'm in my business suit on-board. I HATE flying that way. If I can possibly manage to get to a hotel first, I fly in jeans or chinos and a golf shirt or flannel buttondown. I've never received poor service or dirty looks because of this. I'm neat, clean, my requests are polite and respectful, and I'm treated well.

What I can't get over is the people in FC (usually men) who have their shirts half out of their pants, change pullover sweaters in the aisle, smell like they've never seen a shower, or sit and assume that the entire row (my seat and armrests and tray area included) is THEIR desk and begin to sort tax receipts written on napkins and bottlecaps.

How do these people get into FC? There must be a lot of eccentrics out there.

A couple of things I have to respond to..

NJ David... you hit on another issue with me... if we dress clean and neat, then why can't we wear chinos or jeans and poloshirts (or to Hawaii my Hawaiian shirt) and my Red Green Show Ballcap and my Converse White HighTops. (Yes in the business I wear the suit and tie and wingtips or Loafers... Unless like you Dave I get the time to go to the hotel and change like
Superman.)

I have seen 1K's and other elites in first
who dress worse than me on Friday's (my sweatshirt and jeans day at work.)

Hate dressing up unless it's work or taking HOlly out or a special occassion or I'm meeting a good friend or special lady for the first time!

About the talking/smiling/contact thing... I am very very shy (like my cat, Eddie.) It takes me awhile to warm up to people, and I don't want to initate conversation for fear
teh person next to me would tell me to go jump off (I will not use THAT work.) I normally wait for the person next to me to say the first word, I chime in something and if there's a conversation then fine. If not, fine.

Some people in first give me a look like I don't belong there. I did not know that first class was restricted to only the allegedly beautiful and rich (with drooping pants, shirts sticking out, and shoes off, coming aboard drunk and passing out, saying its their right because they've paid 25 hundred dollars for a first class ticket.)

They are unlike all of us, who dress well, will stick up for our friends if they are in trouble, are smart, friendly and all have a lot of class, whether we wear a Brooks Brothers suit, polo shirt, 49-er sweatshirt... or a very dashing, colorful and sexy looking Hawaiian shirt. CATMAN