Legal question regarding miles
#17
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While the failure to fulfill a contract may have civil remedies, that doesn't make it unlawful.
An airline may prohibit the sale of miles, that doesn't make it an unlawful act.
#18
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#19
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You are misusing these terms. It is not "unlawful" to violate a contract. It is "unlawful" to violate a statute (and that violation may be either criminal or civil, depending on the statute).
While the failure to fulfill a contract may have civil remedies, that doesn't make it unlawful.
An airline may prohibit the sale of miles, that doesn't make it an unlawful act.
While the failure to fulfill a contract may have civil remedies, that doesn't make it unlawful.
An airline may prohibit the sale of miles, that doesn't make it an unlawful act.
#20




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#21
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So simply do a cash gift + some item = similar to scalping tickets for a show. Cash plus a bag of potato chips...or a vase...or a coffee cup. I have heard this is a way around it.
Now mind you, I am not a lawyer and this should not be construed as legal advice. Especially from a man named "Baloney."
Now mind you, I am not a lawyer and this should not be construed as legal advice. Especially from a man named "Baloney."
#22
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I wouldn't even say they are disguised sales. The seller is promising to include the supposedly free item (the real item of value). It's a silly pretense.
#23
Join Date: Sep 2009
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I think unlawful is properly used to describe breach of contract because it exposes one to civil liability in largely the same way that non-criminal torts do. Wouldn't you agree that patent infringement is unlawful? What difference does it really make to the defendant if the source of that civil liability is statutory or contractual?
The source of the civil liability may not make any difference to the defendant, but that doesn't make it "unlawful." The violation of a User Agreement with an airline is not an "unlawful act."
We could also have a long discussion as to whether the commission of a tort is an "unlawful act" ..... but we would certainly bore those few FTers that we haven't already bored. But, dhuey, I wholeheartedly appreciate your comments that we should all be very careful about how loosely we use terms like "illegal" and "unlawful," and wish you the best on this Christmas morning. Cheers!
Last edited by Steve in Olympia; Dec 25, 2011 at 11:08 am Reason: typo
#24
Join Date: Jun 2010
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"A patentee shall have remedy by civil action for infringement of his patent." --United States Code, title chapter 29, section 281, according to http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/us...1----000-.html
Unlawful. That which is contrarary to, prohibited or unauthorized by law. That which is not lawful. The acting contrary to, or in defiance of the law; disobeying or disregarding the law. Term is equivalent to "without excuse of justrification." While not implying the element of criminality, it is broad enough to include it. See Crime; Criminal.
Term as applied to agreements and the like, denotes they are ineffectual in law, for they involve acts which, though not positively forbidden, are disapproved by law and are therefore not recognized as ground for legal rights because they are against public policy. See Illegal.
--Black's Law Dictionary with Pronunciations, Abridged Sixth Edition, Centenial Edition (1891-1991), page 1068
Term as applied to agreements and the like, denotes they are ineffectual in law, for they involve acts which, though not positively forbidden, are disapproved by law and are therefore not recognized as ground for legal rights because they are against public policy. See Illegal.
--Black's Law Dictionary with Pronunciations, Abridged Sixth Edition, Centenial Edition (1891-1991), page 1068
#25
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Steve, I sense that what you're getting at is how breaching a contract is not inherently wrong. If so, I completely agree. I like to use unlawful to convey to non-lawyers the idea that something they are doing or failing to do might get them into non-criminal legal trouble. FWIW, I see nothing immoral about selling miles.
#26
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I'll concur with the majority here that it's not against the law, but is against most program rules. The penalty, should he be caught selling them, is likely to be simply a forfeiture of the ticket and his account balance.
While miles can't be sold, they often can be inherited. Rules vary by program. They can also sometimes be donated to charity.
He should also consider non-travel uses of the miles. He might be able to treat himself to a nice suite at a downtown hotel, the next time he goes out for an evening. Or redeem for merchandise, usually not the best value but one way to use the miles within the program rules.
While miles can't be sold, they often can be inherited. Rules vary by program. They can also sometimes be donated to charity.
He should also consider non-travel uses of the miles. He might be able to treat himself to a nice suite at a downtown hotel, the next time he goes out for an evening. Or redeem for merchandise, usually not the best value but one way to use the miles within the program rules.
#27


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In summary, the sale of miles or award tickets violates the rules of the airlines but not any law. If your uncle sells his miles (or U do on his behalf,) it should be to a friend, relative, neighbor or business contact who could reasonably receive such a 'gift.'
Example: "My teammate/ co-worker & I got these tickets for Christmas from his uncle."
Example: "My teammate/ co-worker & I got these tickets for Christmas from his uncle."
#28

Join Date: Jan 2011
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In the event of death, can points be transferred to those designated in the will as an inheritance?
Some grey area ideas:
Sign up for credit cards that match your uncle's program type using your uncle's mailing address. Then your uncle could transfer to the new cc. I read this is possible with Amex SPg as log both cc reside at the same mailing address.
If your uncle buys someone a ticket and is paid cash, no one but the two parties would know.
Checks are traceable to a certain degree since even if you cash it, the check would require your uncle's signature to cash.
Some grey area ideas:
Sign up for credit cards that match your uncle's program type using your uncle's mailing address. Then your uncle could transfer to the new cc. I read this is possible with Amex SPg as log both cc reside at the same mailing address.
If your uncle buys someone a ticket and is paid cash, no one but the two parties would know.
Checks are traceable to a certain degree since even if you cash it, the check would require your uncle's signature to cash.
#29
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I had a question regarding my Uncle's miles. He is retired, very old and has millions and millions of miles in several programs. However he has no intent of ever using these miles to travel as he is too old. In this case he would love to sell his miles for some extra cash but that would be considered illegal (I think). Is it possible he can use these miles for the travel of family and friends and then charge them a fee for using his miles?
Thanks.
Thanks.
If your relative is that old (and probably coming to terms with his mortality), he has three options here:
1. use the miles himself (as he chooses)
2. use the miles to allow friends/family to travel (as gifts)
3. don't do anything, and the miles COULD pass to whomever will take from his Estate
All this other stuff about 'selling,' gifting, etc., is irrelevant. If he wishes to condition the use of his redeemable miles upon gratuities from friends/family, so what? That is not a topic for discussion outside the family/friend relationship.
The carriers don't care about intra-family transfers.
#30
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I have a tough time believing this is even a topic here.
* * *
All this other stuff about 'selling,' gifting, etc., is irrelevant. If he wishes to condition the use of his redeemable miles upon gratuities from friends/family, so what? That is not a topic for discussion outside the family/friend relationship.
* * *
All this other stuff about 'selling,' gifting, etc., is irrelevant. If he wishes to condition the use of his redeemable miles upon gratuities from friends/family, so what? That is not a topic for discussion outside the family/friend relationship.

