newbie here... go easy on me please.

I've recently become fascinated with this forum. I don't fly for work and rarely have a chance for a vacation. With an overseas trip coming up, I hastily signed up for a Capital One card because they have a no annual fee, and no foreign transaction fee card. So I have two questions for y'all:

1. On flyertalk though, it seems like many people jump on great CC deals all the time. I'm just wondering how many cards people usually manage at once. Haven't seen this topic much so if it's taboo to talk about how many CC people have open at any given time, the mods please feel free to delete this.

2. Does it make sense for me to open a hotel or airline CC even if I don't travel all that much? Is there a way to calculate how many cards I can afford to keep open versus whether it's worth the annual fee?

All cards are affordable if the first year fee is waived. You have 364 days to take the sign on bonus, possibly achieve a spend bonus, and afford the card then it gets tossed in the recycling bin. Some call it churning, but you can call it "plastic recycling" to be politically correct or "stripmining sign on bonuses" if you are a financial barbarian.

Never met a sign on bonus on a fee waived card I didn't like!

haha, I like the way you think!

Do you try to sign up for every good deal that comes along? Is there a reasonable number a newbie should try to follow? Or is it like catch 'em all while you can?

I presently have 11 credit cards, 6 of which charge an annual fee (although 2 of those will be cancelled before the annual fee rolls around). I know I am a piker in comparison with many here. I will probably have 4 or 5 more new cards before the end of the year. I only just started with the Chase cards, and they limit your apps to one per month, so I am working on building up CO/UA miles before the merger.

I think the basic strategy is to have a core group of cards that you keep, and then "churn" the rest (earn the signup bonus miles, then cancel before the annual fee). I think that most people's "keepers" include SPG Amex, an Amex Gold or Platinum, and one or two airline-branded cards that provide benefits for the airlines they fly most frequently (e.g. CO OnePass gives a free checked bag) -- same with one or two hotel-branded cards besidest the SPG (e.g. Hilton HHonors Amex gives Silver status with no annual fee).

For someone like yourself I think it would be worth it to basically follow this strategy. I would probably go for a Starwood Amex ($65 annual fee, but 30k signup points that can be transferred to practically any airline at an effective 1.25:1 ratio) along with a couple of no-annual-fee cards (the aforementioned HHonors Amex, a Chase Sapphire) and then churn any offers that come up that you think you might use.

Thanks, that sounds like a good strategy. You seem to know this churning game well. So to sum up, most people use the SPG Amex mostly because it transfers to airline miles pretty easily? Is churning the SPG card not recommended?

I had to really think....

Long term I have 3 cards that I won't cancel even though they don't offer much but are almost 20 years old so no way going to cancel all of them as they keep my history.


the past 15 months I have gotten:


AA Visa - will cancel

AA MC - will cancel

AA Business - will cancel

USAir ?? MC? Visa? - canceled

CO Chase - soon canceled

BA Chase - will cancel at 11 months

Amex PR will cancel

Amex Plat - will keep if they continue the good benefits

PC Chase - will keep (worth it for the free night)

Sapphire don't know yet if will keep or not

just got the
SPG Amex - will keep

I hope to be able to churn some of the above cards at some point

wow, that's an impressive list! i'm so new that i don't even know all those cards off the top of my head, but i'll look more into how churnable those cards are for me. The initial spend limit is what holds me back from going all out. That and keeping it all straight...

I have:

AA Visa
AA Amex
Delta Platinum Gold
Delta Platinum Amex
Amex PRG
2 other rewards CC's

I'll probably cancel all these at the 11 month mark (I'll try to get the annual fee waived first) and keep the other 2 CC's just because of credit history.

I am pretty new to it. I only really got into this game a few months ago. I wish I had known years ago.... I'd easily be AA 1MM by now.

Apparently it's not really possible to get the SPG signup bonus more than once. A lot of CC companies are cracking down on churning.

The SPG card is preferred 1) because of the huge number of airline partners and 2) because of the 1.25x earnings potential. When you transfer a block of 20,000 SPG points to an airline program, you get a bonus of 5,000 miles tacked on -- an extra 25%. So you effectively earn 1.25 miles per dollar spent on the card, which is better than most airline-branded cards at just 1.0 mile per dollar spent. Amex Premier Rewards Gold is one that can get 2 points per dollar on a lot of categories of spending, and 3 on airfare; but unfortunately Membership Rewards are a lot more limited in terms of which programs they can transfer to. People place a premium on both MR and SPG points because of their flexibility, but SPG is a lot more flexible than MR. There is hardly a frequent flyer program out there that SPG *doesn't* transfer to.... so if you're looking to book a reward on a given airline, but you're short XX number of miles, you can use the SPG transfer to "top off" the account to book the reward. Same with MR, but again your options are more limited.

On the other hand, MR does offer transfer bonuses from time to time. For example there was a 50% bonus on British Airways miles just recently, and Delta promos come up pretty often -- and there have been some that even got MQM (elite qualifying miles) on Delta, which is huge if you're a Delta frequent flyer.

So basically SPG is sort of the "best miles per dollar spend" card around for most airline programs. If your primary airline is British Airways, Delta, or US Airways (or one of the other MR partners -- mostly foreign airlines) then the Premier Rewards Gold might be a better option overall, depending on your spending categories (although the annual fee is $175 vs. $65 for the SPG).

Does this hurt your credit rating long term? And hurt your ability to apply for more cards after you keep cancelling them.

Also, if I understand this thread correctly. If I get a card that the first year fee is waived and lets say have to spend $4000.00 in 6 months to receive miles. At 11 months I can cancel, no questions asked and without any penalty to those miles I received.

I've churned cards for a while now and haven't seen much affect on my credit score. Mine has fluctuated by about 20 points. YMMV. As far as losing miles or points upon cancelling a card, haven't experienced it either. Once the miles or points are in your airline or hotel account, they are generally yours to keep.

No, in fact it should improve your credit rating over the long term. Credit card companies don't really like churning, but they put up with it. You may not be able to get the sign-up bonus again, but you should be able to get the card again in the future if you need it. There is no accounting for what a card company will do if you are too aggressive or blatant (like repeatedly closing your accounts as soon as you get the bonus miles), but I know there are people who have been churning for 5+ years now and have not had trouble getting new cards.

Yes. Sometimes when you call at 11 months you will be able to get the annual fee waived again for another year, or receive some other retention bonus (extra miles, etc.) to get you to keep the card.

As for the miles you earn -- once they're in your frequent flyer account, the credit card company can't take them back just because you close the account. On the other hand, certain rewards programs (such as Chase Sapphire, Citi ThankYou, Amex Membership Rewards) are tied to the card -- so if you close the account, then you will lose the points. (Although there are multiple Amex cards that use MR, so you just have to keep one of them open to retain your MR points.)

I've only been doing this for about 3 months, but in that time, we've racked up some pretty good deals. Some of these cards I've had for a year or longer.

AA Visa 75K miles
AA Visa (wife) 75K miles
AA Amex (wife) 75K miles
AA Biz 75K miles
Chase Sap Pref 50K points
Delta Reserve About 60K miles with my spend and miles boost
Delta Plat Biz About 50K miles with my spend and miles boost
Citi Thank You Had for like 10 years, no intentions to close, no bonus
Chase Ink Biz Just use it for Sams since they only take MC
SPG Personal 30K SPG points
SPG Pers (wife) 30K SPG points
SPG Biz 30K SPG points
SPG Biz (wife) 30K SPG points

Only Annual Fee cards I will keep is the Delta Plat Biz ($150), because the free companion certificate is worth more than that, and the Delta Reserve, because the MQM/miles boost, free Sky Club, and another free companion certificate is worth it.

I too have read this board with great skepticism, and figured everyone to be travel junkies who are misinformed about the real value of rewards programs. The truth is though, reward programs do...offer rewards. Many cards make $ense to own, and some do not.

Like already mentioned the first year is free for many of these cards. And some cards actually make sense for the infrequent traveler who wishes to travel more.

Here is my personal arsenal at the moment

1) Fidelity 2% cashback Amex. No annual fee, 2% cashback, no gimmicks.
2) AA Visa - meeting my $1500 spending requirement on the card. No perks, $95 annual fee. First year free. 75k miles. Easy miles! Will definitely cancel!
3) AA Amex - meeting my $4000 spending requirement on the card. Without a doubt I will cancel. 75K easy miles. No perks, unless you consider travel protection, and other "commonly found travel card perks, (think rental car insurance, delayed luggage reimbursement)
4) Continental OnePass - 50k miles. (2) presidents club passes per year ($100 value), 1st checked bag free. Priority boarding I think too? If Continental/United turns out to be carrier I will fly on quite often I MAY keep this card. the presidents passes are nice little perks as are the bags. But you have to make sure you use these perks. Easy miles, no spending requirements
5) Intercontinental Visa - Easy 80k targeted e-mail offer. No spending requirements. This is a hotel card, and these cards may make the most sense out of all the cards really. This one in particular has a 10% rebate on reward redemption's, so my 80k is really 88k. 5 points for every $ spent @ their properties. 49/annual fee with the first year free. Here are 3 unique and awesome perks. No foreign transaction fees, should you decide to go international you will have the right card to do it. 1 free hotel night per year. Who doesn't stay in a hotel at least one night a year? This offsets your $49/annual fee entirely, and may in many cases more than pay for itself. Gold status I think it is? I am not sure, but that is so you hopefully get free upgrades to suites or larger rooms.


I want a Southwest 50k mile card, but JPM says that I have applied for credit too recently from them (just got the Priority Club visa, and the Onepass from them).

Cards with 2-5% cashback are the way to go, and purchasing gift cards at that so to receive an additional few % off at retailers you frequent. That is for "everyday spending", when I am not out trying to hit spending requirements. It just so happens that all my credit card purchasing is basically being redirected to Citibank AA cards for the next few months. But I don't think any mile card is very enticing in the $ value per mile which is a pity because it makes their cards really unattractive unless you spend a lotttttttttttt. Using their shopping portals becomes a great way to spend with your card, through their portal, and get a decent amount of points. But their bonus points are in areas you see yourself spending not necessarily a whole lot of. E.G. Flowers. Sure some people buy flowers online, and for the sake of miles it is "cheap" if you are already spending money on flowers. But if you aren't then it is simply just helping you rationalize the spending. Although lets be real, you buying flowers for your girl puts money in the economy, gets you brownie points, and you only live once so why not have some fresh flowers around.


Credit impact can be negligible per say. A large number of inquires will only count as one inquiry (I applied for like 6 cards and my credit score got hit with 2 hard inquiries). These are only visible for 2 years, and ideally keeping these cards open is the way to go as it makes you have a longer average credit life span.

Most hotel cards offer some sort of free night/yr thing which offsets their costs.

But don't kid yourself. These cards encourage travel/vacation. Everyone dreams of that vacation and says they can't make it happen for a number of various reasons, but now you have a some free hotel nights here, and some miles there.....

Rental cars become the biggest expense if they are required, and then food/activities. I say go for the cards, close them at 1 year unless they offer to drop the annual fee for you, and I would always try and keep the cards open if possible.

I stumbled across this article from Barclays. I thought it was pretty good. It might answer your question.

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