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-   -   BA miles redemption tax versus AA (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/milesbuzz/1028017-ba-miles-redemption-tax-versus-aa.html)

aaron1262 Jan 10, 2010 6:30 pm


Originally Posted by Happy (Post 13154573)
No. You cannot fly AA to India because it is TATL.

So to clarify once again...you just can't fly AA right? Because as i've noted above i'm able to see and book a ticket to Helsinki on Finnair as well as Royal Jordanian to DEL via AMM no problems.

frankiwa Jan 10, 2010 6:36 pm


Originally Posted by aaron1262 (Post 13154466)
For those of you who are wondering..yes you can avoid BA flying transatlantic. I just pulled up JFK-HEL Nonstop on FinnAir(AY) Jan 28 returning 29th..(as a test). $2.50 taxes outbound $35.92 taxes inbound.

You could also avoid BA by flying Iberian Air with any one of the following combinations:
(JFK, BOS, or ORD) to (MAD or BCN)
Some of these are codeshare so I don't know if all routes would be valid on codeshare flights for award redemptions. I've heard that BA does not allow codeshare flights for award redemptions, but I'm not 100%. Also I read somewhere that IB has high YQ.


Or you could fly AerLingus from several spots in the US. to Europe. I haven't checked what the YQ for them is either.

Brussels Air probably has a few transatlantic routes as well. Again, no idea on YQ with them.

TrueBlueFlyer Jan 10, 2010 6:53 pm

forgive the ignorance, but how do you actually book a partner airline with BA miles?



would anyone recommend booking Euro-USA on BA and USA-Euro on AA? or are you better off booking a round trip on a single itinerary?

Happy Jan 10, 2010 6:54 pm


Originally Posted by aaron1262 (Post 13154661)
So to clarify once again...you just can't fly AA right? Because as i've noted above i'm able to see and book a ticket to Helsinki on Finnair as well as Royal Jordanian to DEL via AMM no problems.

Yes, only AA is subject to the TATL restriction because of the Anti-Trust Immunity AA and BA signed when they first formed partnership decades ago.

You can use AY & IB for TATL flights.

Now, in your sample itinerary you are using AY and RJ on the same award, am I correct? In this case, your award is no longer ONE partner award - it will be a OneWorld award because more than One partner is used.

It would be Expensive to use BA miles for a OneWord Type award which is based on Distance Flown. You should check the award chart to see how many miles would cost you using BA's program, versus using AA's program (AA miles).

Happy Jan 10, 2010 6:57 pm


Originally Posted by JerseyVics (Post 13154785)
forgive the ignorance, but how do you actually book a partner airline with BA miles?

On BA award booking engine, choose the Partners (on the left side bar on one of the screen).

However BA's software often does not pick up partner airlines routing if connection is involved. It is better to also check the partner airline's own site for the targeted routing to compare with what BA shows. If not shown online, then you need to call to inquire.


Originally Posted by JerseyVics (Post 13154785)
would anyone recommend booking Euro-USA on BA and USA-Euro on AA? or are you better off booking a round trip on a single itinerary?

You cannot use AA for TATL flight.

moondog Jan 10, 2010 7:01 pm


Originally Posted by JerseyVics (Post 13154785)
forgive the ignorance, but how do you actually book a partner airline with BA miles?



would anyone recommend booking Euro-USA on BA and USA-Euro on AA? or are you better off booking a round trip on a single itinerary?

It seems like you may be asking several questions at the same time, perhaps partially inadvertently, but here's my crack at an answer:

-you can't use BA miles to book AA TATL
-" AA " BA "
-many people here are loath to use BA miles on BA (at all, not just TATL) because the fuel surcharges and related fees can be excessive
-it almost always makes sense to book journeys one way at a time IMO since there is no price break for RT bookings; furthermore, BA treats 2 (or more) airline awards differently (prices are comparable for short and medium trips, but diverge sharply on long journeys), so by splitting a RT into two one ways you can fly two different carriers without being subject to the 2+ airline award rules

moondog Jan 10, 2010 7:06 pm


Originally Posted by Happy (Post 13154789)
It would be Expensive to use BA miles for a OneWord Type award which is based on Distance Flown. You should check the award chart to see how many miles would cost you using BA's program, versus using AA's program (AA miles).

A lot of distance based awards pencil in Y class (comparable to AA's distance based chart, and maybe even a bit more generous), but the numbers don't work so well in C (or especially F). This is because BA charges 2x miles for C and 3x for F, compared to ~1.5x and ~2x, which is common in most other major programs.

TrueBlueFlyer Jan 10, 2010 8:13 pm

no, I don't want to book AA flight on BA miles... I was asking if its reasonable to book a BA flight Euro-USA using BA miles and USA-Euro on AA using AA miles.

moondog Jan 10, 2010 8:42 pm


Originally Posted by JerseyVics (Post 13155215)
no, I don't want to book AA flight on BA miles... I was asking if its reasonable to book a BA flight Euro-USA using BA miles and USA-Euro on AA using AA miles.

It doesn't matter what direction you fly; BA redemptions always incur YQ and AA's never do. Though, it's possible that the latter may not be the case forever (DL recently began collecting a "foreign origin" surcharge on award tickets that originate from outside the US; let's hope that idea doesn't gain traction with AA.)

frankiwa Jan 11, 2010 6:54 pm


Originally Posted by headinclouds (Post 13094176)
Here is a table that lists a one-way economy flight ex-USA and the cost in miles and dollars. This is also a good clue as to which airlines charge a fuel fine when booking the RTW tickets.
AY Finair JFK-HEL 32.5K $2.50
AA American ORD-PVG 25K $2.50
BA British JFK-MAD 30K $127.00
CX Cathay Pac JFK-HKG 25K $47.00
IB Iberia JFK-MAD 30K $133.00
JL Japan Airline SFO-NRT 25K $75.00
LA LAN Chile JFK-SCL 20K $2.50
MX Mexicana JFK-MEX 17.5K $103.00
QF Qantas LAX-MEL 40K $94.00
RJ Royl Jordian JFK-AMM 40K $115.00
MA no long-haul flights, useless partner


Are you sure about these fares? I don't have my first batch of miles posted just yet so I can't verify at BAEC, but they seem really low using ITA as a reference. For example LAN, JFK-SCL has to be more than $2.50 out of pocket. $2.50 only covers the Sept. 11 security fee. Are you saying that you were not charged a US Passenger Facility Charge, US International Departure Tax, Chile Domestic Airport Facility Charge, US Immigration Fee, US Customs fee, etc...

Surely there are no flights where the out of pocket is only $2.50?

moondog Jan 13, 2010 8:02 pm


Originally Posted by frankiwa (Post 13161815)
Are you sure about these fares?

My research also confirms these results, though I haven't completed any bookings yet. Assuming it works out, I would advise against harping too heavily on the point in question (note: I've refrained from quoting any specific numbers in this post).

Mr. Bean Jan 13, 2010 8:23 pm


Originally Posted by frankiwa (Post 13161815)
Are you sure about these fares? I don't have my first batch of miles posted just yet so I can't verify at BAEC, but they seem really low using ITA as a reference. For example LAN, JFK-SCL has to be more than $2.50 out of pocket. $2.50 only covers the Sept. 11 security fee. Are you saying that you were not charged a US Passenger Facility Charge, US International Departure Tax, Chile Domestic Airport Facility Charge, US Immigration Fee, US Customs fee, etc...

Surely there are no flights where the out of pocket is only $2.50?

no those are not the only out of pocket costs. they are only fuel and insurance surcharges. the airport and govt. taxes are extra.

moondog Jan 13, 2010 8:43 pm


Originally Posted by Mr. Bean (Post 13177003)
no those are not the only out of pocket costs. they are only fuel and insurance surcharges. the airport and govt. taxes are extra.

Do they collect these other charges on a separate screen?

moondog Jan 13, 2010 9:40 pm


Originally Posted by Mr. Bean (Post 13177003)
no those are not the only out of pocket costs. they are only fuel and insurance surcharges. the airport and govt. taxes are extra.

I just proceeded all the way to the final payment screen on booking (ORD-PVG, business class) and didn't notice any additional charges.

As much as I'd really like to nail down a seat on that flight, I can't pull the trigger yet because I can't seem to get ba.com to display LGA-ORD-PVG as a through trip; they REALLY want me to chose an LHR routing, to the extent that the "include partners" link doesn't even present itself on my preferred date (though, it does the day prior).

I'll stop short of blasting BA over its website because most US airline sites don't display partner availability at all. That having been said, as long as they maintain that they have partner routes covered, they should be held somewhat accountable for missing the obvious.

Mr. Bean Jan 13, 2010 10:15 pm


Originally Posted by moondog (Post 13177418)
I just proceeded all the way to the final payment screen on booking (ORD-PVG, business class) and didn't notice any additional charges.

As much as I'd really like to nail down a seat on that flight, I can't pull the trigger yet because I can't seem to get ba.com to display LGA-ORD-PVG as a through trip; they REALLY want me to chose an LHR routing, to the extent that the "include partners" link doesn't even present itself on my preferred date (though, it does the day prior).

I'll stop short of blasting BA over its website because most US airline sites don't display partner availability at all. That having been said, as long as they maintain that they have partner routes covered, they should be held somewhat accountable for missing the obvious.

weird - i guess BA is paying the International Departure Tax ($16) and PFC ($4.50). Fine with me :D

EDIT: on the return, though, the cost is $30. Adding up the taxes from ITA, it looks like the International Arrival Tax ($16) is not charged, but PRC Airport Fee, US Customs Fee, US Immigration Fee, and USDA Fee are collected.

So looks like this is a US thing, as I've not been able to get these "tax dumps" from/between other countries.


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