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-   -   Mistake fares: I pledge to to be ethical (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/mileage-run-discussion/693548-mistake-fares-i-pledge-ethical.html)

siksmysas Jun 10, 2007 8:56 am

Amazing all the justifications that come out when people feel guilty when asked to be ethical. These same people wouldn't get their panties in a wad when someone calls the airline - if it's ethical, what's the problem in calling? I agree FT has changed but it represents the general moral decline of the United States.

yulmichael Jun 10, 2007 9:56 am

To Moderator - wrong thread ?
 

Originally Posted by yulmichael (Post 7876896)
DO I HAVE ANY LEGAL RIGHTS ?
Yesterday,while searching for a LAX - BKK fare for Aug. , I stumbled on an
amazing fare ,published by a woleseller in Toronto.
CAD$ 349 for 2 pax all in ( via TPE ).
I immediately booked it ( including payment with a C.C. ).
15 minutes later,I received the e-mail confirmation.
2 hours later I reveived a tel. call from that wholeseller , telling me that the
fare was a mistake and they are not going to honor it. An argument on my
part did not change anything.

A note. While doing the booking , on the booking page, it states :
" I understand that even after pressing the PURCHASE BUTTON that a
reservation is not confirmed until I receive a confirmation email "
I had to check the box next to the statement.
As mentioned , I have received the confirmation e-mail.

Do I have any legal recourse ?
Michael .

Dear moderator.
Seems to me that I posted the above in a wrong thread.
Please move it to a thread you deem to be more appropiate for the subject.
Thanks
Michael

anaggie Jun 10, 2007 12:23 pm


Originally Posted by Altaflyer (Post 7749814)
If a fare is offered and I accept then we have a deal. No regrets and no guilt.

EXACTLY !! and well said...and I might add that going on a vacation by yourself is no fun so why not take your whole family with to enjoy !!!! And if I can get them the same deal...why not?

When was the last time a corporation let you get you with a mistake you made?

EUA Addict Jun 10, 2007 10:33 pm

Come on, there has to be another lawyer on this forum...

Don't the airlines simply get to resort to the legal defense of "unilateral mistake," to avoid having to honor the mistaken fare (regardless if the price has been "accepted" via tender of payment)?

mpattdu Jun 13, 2007 10:33 am

Given that buying mis-priced airline tickets is such a threat to the moral foundation of our country, I'm going to lobby for the creation of a "Mistake Fare Czar." We need someone to make public service ads so we can combat this destructive behavior. Parents, talk to your kids before they get hooked! After all, you might think it's harmless, but buying mistake fares is the gateway to more extreme and dangerous cost-saving behavior--like hijacking or hiding in wheel-wells. Those desperate enough for their "fix" might even resort to using MILES to gain a free ticket!

:rolleyes:

tfmpa Jun 13, 2007 11:08 am

I'm not commenting on what anyone should or shouldn't do, but reading this I wondered how many times airlines have made mistakes that resulted in a higher price being charged than what should have been? (I know, I know, basically all fares are higher than they should be!) Do you think the airlines refund the difference? I doubt they have any system tracking these fares.

zrs70 Jun 13, 2007 1:09 pm


Originally Posted by tfmpa (Post 7896776)
I'm not commenting on what anyone should or shouldn't do, but reading this I wondered how many times airlines have made mistakes that resulted in a higher price being charged than what should have been? (I know, I know, basically all fares are higher than they should be!) Do you think the airlines refund the difference? I doubt they have any system tracking these fares.

Well, United always gives full credit (in a voucher) if there is a lower fare. I also think that air fares, as a whole, are less expensive (relatively) than they used to be. I remember in the mid '80's, I thought getting a r/t BOS-ORD for $299 was a bargain. Today, $299 sounds expensive.

Khabibul35 Jun 13, 2007 4:11 pm


Originally Posted by zrs70 (Post 7897410)
Well, United always gives full credit (in a voucher) if there is a lower fare. I also think that air fares, as a whole, are less expensive (relatively) than they used to be. I remember in the mid '80's, I thought getting a r/t BOS-ORD for $299 was a bargain. Today, $299 sounds expensive.

United refunds the fare if you notice and call them or ask for a reprice on their website.

You don't simply get a refund back on your credit card. They could do it if they wanted, but the real purpose of the offer is too entice you to buy tickets earlier and not wait around for a fare sale. Getting you to commit to a ticket earlier is definitely advantageous to the airline.

United doesn't want to give you the money back if it's a mistake and you pay more than you should have, they just realize being stubborn about it will lose them customers. If they could take advantage of the situation without you noticing, I'm pretty sure they would.

writetorich Jun 20, 2007 9:14 pm

Wow. Great post from a newbie. Ditto. Could not have said it better myself.
 

Originally Posted by trilinearmipmap (Post 7743388)
In my view ethics are about how people treat each other.

Since corporations do not treat people (either their customers or their employess) ethically, I don't feel compelled to treat corporations ethically.

Corporations are machines designed to make money without regard for the damage they do to people, society or the environment.

Given the opportunity I will not hesitate to screw a corporation over. Countless corporations have done the same to me.


writetorich Jun 20, 2007 9:19 pm

Sorry, I respectfully disagree with this thread
 
More over what exactly is a "mistake" fare????

Airfare pricing is so illogical and subject to extreme variance.

Very often an aggressive promotion is due to a retaliatory move against a competitor.

I as a simple consumer am suppose to interpret the MOTIVES behind pricing fluctuations and use speculative deduction to pass on services offfered by an experienced seller who changes pricing all the time to satisfy the "ethical" concerns of the OP:td::td:

mecabq Jun 25, 2007 2:56 am


Originally Posted by ingy (Post 7743532)
And my question to the airlines is: how can they ethically charge the walk up fares they do?? Most of them are outrageous. And can you imagine a first class seat to New Zealand really being worth $19,000???

Yes, it is worth that, if that's what the market will bear.

The laws of supply and demand have nothing to do with ethics. It's silly to call a business charging customers the most that they will willingly pay "unethical." You can choose to buy or not buy the fare, and you have just as little right to call the airline unethical for charging that price as you do to call the person who buys that fare unethical.

I agree with the hesitation to take advantage of mistake fares, especially as a loyal customer of a particular airline. Contrary to some of the implications on this forum, there is an obvious distinction between a sale and a mistake. If something were supposed to cost $99 in a store, and the bar code actually rang up 99c, I think that's absurd to expect the store to honor that price.

With airfares, however, I ultimately come down on the side of going for the mistake fares, because the airline ultimately has the decision to honor them or not -- if an airline does honor them, great; but if not, then I can't really begrudge them or complain.

chasbondy Jun 25, 2007 8:14 am

>>Mistake fares: I pledge to to be ethical >>

Screw that. The Airlines will hose you at every given chance. Why not hose back. I made an online mistake booking SNA-DFW, when I meant SAN-DFW, and when I noticed it a couple weeks later, they told me to get lost, even though SAN_DFW had plenty of seats available and the fare was the same. Another time, I was given a first class seat upgrade when a passenger didn't show. As the door was closing, the passenger showed up and I was shown the exit door because they had already assigned my coach seat to someone else. Ethics needs to be a two-way street. Oh, and then their is the ethics of the airlines not paying my travel agent a commission when she books a flight for me. (PS I've never cashed in on a fare mistake booking.)

KVS Jun 25, 2007 1:28 pm


Originally Posted by mecabq (Post 7953376)
If something were supposed to cost $99 in a store, and the bar code actually rang up 99c, I think that's absurd to expect the store to honor that price.

Here is a list of all currently-published UA fares between New York and London. Could you tell which one is the "supposed" price? Also, does UA think that it would be "absurd" to charge the $3054 (Vs. $286) fare for the same economy-class seat?

[KVS Availability Tool 2.8.3/Platinum - Sabre: Fares/ZUJ/AU-USD]
Code:

NYC  New York Metro NY US = JFK LGA EWR
LON  London Metro UK = LHR LGW STN LTN LCY
RT  Jun-May

Carrier  From  To  Fare      Cur  Expiry    Min  Max  Fare Basis
--------- ------ ---- --------- ---- --------- ---- ---- ----------
UA        NYC    LON      286  USD            Sun  12M  WLXANGE
UA        NYC    LON      326  USD            Sun  12M  VLXANGE
UA        NYC    LON      346  USD            Sun  12M  WLWANGE
UA        NYC    LON      366  USD            Sun  12M  QLXANGE
UA        NYC    LON      386  USD            Sun  12M  VLWANGE
UA        NYC    LON      399  USD            Sun  12M  WJXANGE
UA        NYC    LON      420  USD            Sun  12M  WKXANGE
UA        NYC    LON      426  USD            Sun  12M  QLWANGE
UA        NYC    LON      426  USD            Sun  12M  HLXAPGE
UA        NYC    LON      459  USD            Sun  12M  WJWANGE
UA        NYC    LON      470  USD            Sun  12M  VKXANGE
UA        NYC    LON      470  USD            Sun  12M  VJXANGE
UA        NYC    LON      480  USD            Sun  12M  WKWANGE
UA        NYC    LON      486  USD            Sun  12M  HLWAPGE
UA        NYC    LON      506  USD            Sun  12M  MLXAPGE
UA        NYC    LON      510  USD            Sun  12M  QJXANGE
UA        NYC    LON      520  USD            Sun  12M  QKXANGE
UA        NYC    LON      530  USD            Sun  12M  VKWANGE
UA        NYC    LON      530  USD            Sun  12M  VJWANGE
UA        NYC    LON      559  USD            Sun  12M  HJXAPGE
UA        NYC    LON      566  USD            Sun  12M  MLWAPGE
UA        NYC    LON      570  USD            Sun  12M  QJWANGE
UA        NYC    LON      580  USD            Sun  12M  QKWANGE
UA        NYC    LON      590  USD            Sun  12M  HKXAPGE
UA        NYC    LON      619  USD            Sun  12M  HJWAPGE
UA        NYC    LON      636  USD            Sun  12M  WHXANGE
UA        NYC    LON      649  USD            Sun  12M  MJXAPGE
UA        NYC    LON      650  USD            Sun  12M  HKWAPGE
UA        NYC    LON      680  USD            Sun  12M  MKXAPGE
UA        NYC    LON      696  USD            Sun  12M  WHWANGE
UA        NYC    LON      696  USD            Sun  12M  VHXANGE
UA        NYC    LON      709  USD            Sun  12M  MJWAPGE
UA        NYC    LON      736  USD            Sun  12M  QHXANGE
UA        NYC    LON      740  USD            Sun  12M  MKWAPGE
UA        NYC    LON      756  USD            Sun  12M  VHWANGE
UA        NYC    LON      796  USD            Sun  12M  QHWANGE
UA        NYC    LON      826  USD            Sun  12M  HHXAPGE
UA        NYC    LON      886  USD            Sun  12M  HHWAPGE
UA        NYC    LON      936  USD            Sun  12M  MHXAPGE
UA        NYC    LON      997  USD            Sun  12M  MHWAPGE
UA        NYC    LON    1506  USD                12M  M12E
UA        NYC    LON    1605  USD                12M  MEE
UA        NYC    LON    1694  USD                12M  B12E
UA        NYC    LON    2122  USD              7  30  ZRSN50E
UA        NYC    LON    2354  USD                12M  BCE
UA        NYC    LON    3054  USD                      Y
UA        NYC    LON    3150  USD            Sun  12M  ZRSN14E
UA        NYC    LON    3269  USD            Sun  12M  ZLRSNG1E
UA        NYC    LON    3628  USD            Sun  12M  ZHRSNG1E
UA        NYC    LON    5614  USD            Sun  12M  ZRSN21E
UA        NYC    LON    7738  USD                      DREGB
UA        NYC    LON    7949  USD                      CRGB
UA        NYC    LON    9936  USD                      C
UA        NYC    LON    12470  USD                      FR
UA        NYC    LON    14530  USD                      F


chasbondy Jun 25, 2007 2:08 pm

Let me purposely go off topic on business ethics and say that had just the filthy dirtbags in WorldCom and Enron been fired and prosecuted without the government receivers and lawyers taking over, it may have been possible to save those companies (definitely Worldcomm, maybe not Enron?)without so many people being hurt. Nothing can hose whats left of a Company faster than blackrobed judges, receivers and lawyers whose only concern is collecting their $500/hr+ fee

mecabq Jun 26, 2007 4:18 am


Originally Posted by KVS (Post 7955969)
Here is a list of all currently-published UA fares between New York and London. Could you tell which one is the "supposed" price? Also, does UA think that it would be "absurd" to charge the $3054 (Vs. $286) fare for the same economy-class seat?

All of them are the "supposed" price, for different products (i.e., advance purchase, flexibility to change, maximum stay requirement, etc., not to mention prices that change as the inventory changes.) The analogy between this scenario and an item at a store coming up 99c instead of $99 is not perfect, because of course airline pricing is more complex, but that doesn't change the concept.

No, UA obviously does not think it's "absurd" to charge $3,054, nor should any flier, because demand exists for that product and someone is willing to buy it at that price.


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