Mistake fares: I pledge to to be ethical
 

I find the whole mistake fare thing so intruiging. I don't want FT to turn into a forum of people trying to take advantage of the airlines. Rather, I have always seen FT as a way to share good and honest ways of earning miles. When we shy away from calling the airline because we think the fare might not be a valid fare, I think we are doing something less than ethical.

That said, what can we do that doesn't compromise our loyalty as customers? I don't know the answer. But I do know that I wouldn't like it if I ran a business and my loyal customers took advantage of honest mistakes.

I pledge to always recognize that no one will take care of me but me, and, as such, expect that airlines should honor their pricing mistake in the same way that I would expect a grocery store to honor the mispricing (new word) of something at .11 when it should be $1.19. Fare mistakes are not the end of western civilization as we know it and, frankly, it won't be the end of the airline that made the mistake either.

The relentless CPM focus in the MR forums puts lie to your view. If there's to be no discussion of fares and routings with unusually low CPM, then it's time to close the MR deals forum entirely.

Personally, I resent the implication that purchasing and flying on a fare and routing freely offered with no fraudulent intent is anything other than a 'good and honest' way of earning miles.

I also don't accept claims of mistake where there's no evidence of mistake in the purchasing process (e.g. fare shows $XXXX price on one page but my card is charged only $YY). Fare sales happen all the time for many reasons.

I pledge the same. I will take advantage FULLY of any and all "mistakes" that arise, at the same time doing nothing to hinder other FTers

In my view ethics are about how people treat each other.

Since corporations do not treat people (either their customers or their employess) ethically, I don't feel compelled to treat corporations ethically.

Corporations are machines designed to make money without regard for the damage they do to people, society or the environment.

Given the opportunity I will not hesitate to screw a corporation over. Countless corporations have done the same to me.

The Ethics Issue
 

I struggled with it when I first joined FT 6 years ago. In that time I have personally come to the realization that the service provider (airline, hotel, third party provider) has the ultimate "say" in honoring the fare mistake or not. As such, if they honor it, GREAT. If not, there will be another one next week. I'm not the type to sue although I do admit getting mad when they back out. ie: Japan Hiltons, changing fare rules,and Los Gatos 2 weeks ago.

And my question to the airlines is: how can they ethically charge the walk up fares they do?? Most of them are outrageous. And can you imagine a first class seat to New Zealand really being worth $19,000???
The airlines have very little leverage when THEY play the ethics card.

I would suggest that thanks to the notoriety FT has gained from the super low fare phenomenon that to a certain extent for a large percentage of the membership taking advantage of the airlines by trawling for these deals has become a priority. Having just passed 138K members FT isn't about the same things it used to be, at least IMHO.

Loyalty? Perhaps it's the skeptic in me that wants to lump loyalty in with privacy as quaint 20th century notions as I sometimes wonder whether there is much of either in this day and age. After all for many here, myself included to a certain extent, loyalty is fuzzy term that rarely extends beyond this promo or that elite status match. And really what would you expect from us who are trained by airlines & hotels to switch loyalty at the drop of a hat? I know what you're saying and appreciate the notion but feel it's expecting too much from too many.

Well said. Take a look at the posts that were important back in 1998:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/searc...archid=1206820

Exactly. The recent upgrade to FT that allows us to see how many members & guests are in a certain forum are interesting from an amateur statisticians POV as unlike before we can now literally see the ranks swell when a super low fare deal is in play. I can only hope that those that come for the titilation of the exotic will stay for the community that is so much more than one forum, however exiciting it can be from time to time. ;)

I would disagree with the assertion that buying tickets on these super low fare is unethical, though everyone is entitled to their opinion and I am quite sure we've had this discussion in many forms in many threads on many forums. I've always been careful, or perhaps simply poor enough, not have been able to splash extra cash around for what could be called speculative reservations, and haven't booked any more than one ticket on any one of the "deals", but that's just me.

I guess that while I can understand your motive creating this thread I find it too hard to broadly apply such a personally subjective term as ethics to a community of 138K and reach anything approaching a consensus.

*raises hand to heart*
I sincerely and wholeheartedly pledge the same as quoted.

That link doesn't work for me. Perhaps you could summarize briefly the discussion topic?

The airlines have implemented a system that allows them to change their fares numerous times a day. While the practice can definitely be benefical to the customer (occasional low fares and sales), the primary reason why the airlines engage in this practice is so they can constantly offer fares at prices that benefit them most at that moment. Since they have the freedom to change the fares so often, then, IMO, they can suffer the (seldom) consequence of that freedom. Plus, most of the airlines have language in their CoC giving them the option to not honor a mistake fare, so even if a mistake happens they still have the choice to either honor it or not.

If every time you went to the grocery store a gallon of milk was a different price (Monday $5.00, Tuesday $8.00, Wednesday $3.50, Thursday $12.00, etc), would you really question it all that much if on Friday it's only $1.00?

As evidenced by the recent PR/Cheapair mistake, most FTers are reasonable folks and willing to let the fare go, given a reasonable and forthright explanation from the airline or OTA (though I think most were willing to cut Cheapair more slack than they would an airline or larger OTA).

link didn't work for me either, unless...
 

The link didn't work for me either, unless you were showing that there were no posts before 1998 ?!

:confused:

Agree with MPATTDU...these mistakes are a natural outgrowth of automating the process and not developing appropriate business rules in concert with this automation.

If a fare is offered and I accept then we have a deal. No regrets and no guilt.

No regrets about not flying on the BA $20 WT+ deal you found? ;)

Regrets, well given circumstances at the time it was just not an option. I actually much prefer the NZ deal :)

What are the ethics of UA's redirecting to the ICC not only reservations but also lost-luggage enquiries and, ridiculously, all complaints?

The stinking ICC is a monstrous insult to UA's pax.

For some suppliers I might feel obliged to call to warn them of a pricing-error but thanks to the ICC, UA forfeits any such sympathy.

Some interesting points raised there. I see the issue boiling down to three key questions:

1) If I see a fare that is extraordinarily low (perhaps a mistake), do I try to take advantage of it? That, I believe, is something that should be up to each and every member her/himself.

2) If I see a fare that is extraordinarily low (perhaps a mistake), do I make it known to other FT'ers? Here, I would suggest that in the spirit of open information exchange and loyalty to the FT community, the information should be made available.

3) If I see a fare that is extraordinarily low (perhaps a mistake), do I make it known to the service provider (airline etc.)? No, no, and again, no. It would be highly contrary to the FT spirit of empowering fellow travellers. Also, as pointed out elsewhere, airlines and other service providers do have legal ways of sorting these situations out.

On the other hand, if a service provider does make an obvious pricing mistake and then a) apologizes for it and b) declines to honor the tickets, we should probably carp a little less, provided that the airline handles the process openly and honorably. Not honoring a $1 RTW ticket offer is not weaseling out, it is just common sense.

Cheers,
T.

Modern business ethics? Need more than a yardstick to measure that one.

I suppose the more we convince ourselves that something is right, the more we believe it!

With all the posts about people trying to stay under cover so that no one at the airline will discover something.....

Some people may see a corporation as a "machine". There are in fact real people behind them. Albeit some may be wealthy investors, I am sure that many are also like you and I, simple investors with a 401K or a teenagers parents saving for their child’s college education. These errors do affect real people not faceless "machines".

I pledge to be ethical. If they offer, and I accept, I will follow thru on my legal obligation.

If they offer, and I accept, will they follow thru on their legal obligation ... or try to finagle their way out? :confused:

When you invest in a corporation you know that they will be making you money disregarding any ethical concerns, other people, the environment, or the benefits of the society as a whole. So why do you expect me to worry about your investment?

I respectfully disagree. Please don't be judgemental of those who can only fulfill many of their travel dreams when they choose to take advantage of real travel bargains when they find them.

Seeing at least one Flyertalker feeling so guilty about purchasing a very cheap airfare that they feel compelled to start such a thread indicates to me that once a super deal is posted, there are always going to be a few folks out there who will alert the airline out of a sense of duty, I guess believing that they can help them avoid financial disaster.

I also resent airlines charging much more than they need when the market doesn't have real competition. Pity the poor person living in small US cities - they almost always have to pay very high fares to fly anywhere in the US.

How's this for ethical?
 

Airlines seem to be able to do what ever they want when it comes to fares. Is it only ethical if it is in their favor?

Example:

Flew CVG - BGR for about $350 on a four day trip. I tried to get a seat on the same flight the day before and I was told the difference was $997. Just to come back a day early on a flight with 10 empty seats. I was a GL MD at the time.

I know the rules, and I understood the reasons that she gave, but that does not make it right.

I think don't think that companies that would this this to their loyal customers can talk to us about ethics. They just shoudn't use big words that they don't understand.

If this helps you to appreciate the situation most travellers are faced with every week, then it is worth it.

Corporations do not treat you ethically, but you still are ethical if you take advantage of a mistake. If I make a mistake and book the wrong date, usually I am stuck. If the corporation makes a promise that it will honor its fares, and you take advantage of that promise, that is ethical.

I flew round trip for $16 plus tax to Atlantic City last week. The airline was happy to honor the promo fare. Are we to judge what is a mistake or a promo? If I add an aditional number in Priceline I am stuck with the price. It is not a matter of ethics, but whether you can legally claim the fare.

We are ethical.

PS - I did get a very high grade in my legal ethics course.

if i find a bag of bank deposits that belong to UA, i'll return it to them.

if they sell me an airfare on .bomb, i'll buy and fly it.

what he said. :)

i don't feel it's unethical to buy a cheap fare and expect to be able to fly on it. if there were 'given' prices for routes, perhaps, but they change daily, and just because a fare is really cheap one day i don't automatically assume it's a mistake.

it's certainly not my job to let the airlines know that they could be getting more for that ticket that day.

airlines don't feel compelled to let me know if i could have paid less for a given ticket...and they don't feel compelled to give me a break if i made a mistake in booking my ticket--nor should they--so i don't feel compelled to give them a break if they make a mistake in booking my ticket--nor should i.

DO I HAVE ANY LEGAL RIGHTS ?
Yesterday,while searching for a LAX - BKK fare for Aug. , I stumbled on an
amazing fare ,published by a woleseller in Toronto.
CAD$ 349 for 2 pax all in ( via TPE ).
I immediately booked it ( including payment with a C.C. ).
15 minutes later,I received the e-mail confirmation.
2 hours later I reveived a tel. call from that wholeseller , telling me that the
fare was a mistake and they are not going to honor it. An argument on my
part did not change anything.

A note. While doing the booking , on the booking page, it states :
" I understand that even after pressing the PURCHASE BUTTON that a
reservation is not confirmed until I receive a confirmation email "
I had to check the box next to the statement.
As mentioned , I have received the confirmation e-mail.

Do I have any legal recourse ?
Michael .

Amazing all the justifications that come out when people feel guilty when asked to be ethical. These same people wouldn't get their panties in a wad when someone calls the airline - if it's ethical, what's the problem in calling? I agree FT has changed but it represents the general moral decline of the United States.

To Moderator - wrong thread ?
 

Dear moderator.
Seems to me that I posted the above in a wrong thread.
Please move it to a thread you deem to be more appropiate for the subject.
Thanks
Michael

EXACTLY !! and well said...and I might add that going on a vacation by yourself is no fun so why not take your whole family with to enjoy !!!! And if I can get them the same deal...why not?

When was the last time a corporation let you get you with a mistake you made?

Come on, there has to be another lawyer on this forum...

Don't the airlines simply get to resort to the legal defense of "unilateral mistake," to avoid having to honor the mistaken fare (regardless if the price has been "accepted" via tender of payment)?

Given that buying mis-priced airline tickets is such a threat to the moral foundation of our country, I'm going to lobby for the creation of a "Mistake Fare Czar." We need someone to make public service ads so we can combat this destructive behavior. Parents, talk to your kids before they get hooked! After all, you might think it's harmless, but buying mistake fares is the gateway to more extreme and dangerous cost-saving behavior--like hijacking or hiding in wheel-wells. Those desperate enough for their "fix" might even resort to using MILES to gain a free ticket!

:rolleyes:

I'm not commenting on what anyone should or shouldn't do, but reading this I wondered how many times airlines have made mistakes that resulted in a higher price being charged than what should have been? (I know, I know, basically all fares are higher than they should be!) Do you think the airlines refund the difference? I doubt they have any system tracking these fares.

Well, United always gives full credit (in a voucher) if there is a lower fare. I also think that air fares, as a whole, are less expensive (relatively) than they used to be. I remember in the mid '80's, I thought getting a r/t BOS-ORD for $299 was a bargain. Today, $299 sounds expensive.

United refunds the fare if you notice and call them or ask for a reprice on their website.

You don't simply get a refund back on your credit card. They could do it if they wanted, but the real purpose of the offer is too entice you to buy tickets earlier and not wait around for a fare sale. Getting you to commit to a ticket earlier is definitely advantageous to the airline.

United doesn't want to give you the money back if it's a mistake and you pay more than you should have, they just realize being stubborn about it will lose them customers. If they could take advantage of the situation without you noticing, I'm pretty sure they would.

Wow. Great post from a newbie. Ditto. Could not have said it better myself.
 

Sorry, I respectfully disagree with this thread
 

More over what exactly is a "mistake" fare????

Airfare pricing is so illogical and subject to extreme variance.

Very often an aggressive promotion is due to a retaliatory move against a competitor.

I as a simple consumer am suppose to interpret the MOTIVES behind pricing fluctuations and use speculative deduction to pass on services offfered by an experienced seller who changes pricing all the time to satisfy the "ethical" concerns of the OP:td::td: