[FARE GONE] Wickedly Low Biz Class Fare from YYZ to LCA (Cyprus) on AZ (Alitalia)
Apr 8, 2006, 9:48 pm
#2958
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Originally Posted by zxcvbs
I'd like to know just how much AZ is losing, especially on only 500 or so tickets (how many of those seats would have been given out as free upgrades?). if it weren't for orbitz pressuring AZ to honor them (if only for their own PR), I doubt AZ would have honored any of them, as there would be little consequence. I don't know what it costs AZ to allow a stopover or a date change, but if it's virtually nothing the fare rule change is obviously an attempt to get people to cancel by making it difficult for them to use the fare. hot deal or no, on principle I think this is unethical, or at the least, very unprofessional. I'm not complaining, but I'm certainly not impressed either
In this case, I think the issue is larger than last time because there are segments that are not operated by AZ involved and because there are more tickets involved here.
Apr 8, 2006, 9:50 pm
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Originally Posted by arfgoblue
is the final count only around 500 then? 
Apr 8, 2006, 9:51 pm
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Originally Posted by ChickenWing
Do the paper tickets come with a list of the fare rules? Or the fare rule code printed on them?
Apr 8, 2006, 9:52 pm
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Originally Posted by zxcvbs
I'd like to know just how much AZ is losing, especially on only 500 or so tickets
By the way, the story has made it to Beijing. http://english.people.com.cn/200604/...09_256979.html
Apr 8, 2006, 9:57 pm
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Originally Posted by Gardyloo
I think the 509 number was given out by the Orbitz spokesperson; however I suspect that it's more than one seat per transaction on average, plus whatever totals were sold through other channels including Travelocity etc.
By the way, the story has made it to Beijing. http://english.people.com.cn/200604/...09_256979.html
By the way, the story has made it to Beijing. http://english.people.com.cn/200604/...09_256979.html
If Orbitz works anything like Sabre/Travelocity, I would think it easier for the data analysts to run a query by ticket number to segment and then pull up counts than to run a query by PNRs.
Apr 8, 2006, 10:01 pm
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Originally Posted by GUWonder
Are "reissued" tickets the same as "reinstated" tickets? I am presuming that they are different. And I'm hearing more about reinstatement of tickets/ticketed itineraries than I'm hearing about a ticket reissue (which often involves fare re-pricing).
Can KVS, HeathrowGuy or one of the other FTers more familiar with travel agency-speak help with these terms' definitions/practical implications?
Thanks in advance.
Can KVS, HeathrowGuy or one of the other FTers more familiar with travel agency-speak help with these terms' definitions/practical implications?
Thanks in advance.
After the problem was noticed, AZ cancelled most if not all reservations. But people still had physical tickets in their possession or the agencies still had them but hadn't mailed them. If all that was done was that the reservation was cancelled, "reinstating" mean rebooking the flights to match the ticket that was already issued.
If however, as was mentioned by at least one poster in this thread (I am not about to do a search to find it), the agency voided the ticket once AZ cancelled the flights, that means that there was both no reservation and no valid ticket (certainly the ticket was still physically present but in the agency's and the airline's view it was no longer in the database and if used could have created problems). So in this case, the ticket would need to be 'reissued' forcing the fare that was valid on 5 April, i.e. +-$180.
Hope this helps.
Apr 8, 2006, 10:09 pm
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Originally Posted by alphaeagle
Yeah, I knew they shouldn't be able to change the rules, but the tickets that are being re-issued have new rules don't they? So is it only tickets that are being re-issued going to be having the problem of different fare rules?
AZ cannot cancel a contract and then attempt to put a new contract in place of the canceled one.
Apr 8, 2006, 10:14 pm
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Originally Posted by fti
Here is my take on the difference, having been in the industry for 15+ years.
After the problem was noticed, AZ cancelled most if not all reservations. But people still had physical tickets in their possession or the agencies still had them but hadn't mailed them. If all that was done was that the reservation was cancelled, "reinstating" mean rebooking the flights to match the ticket that was already issued.
If however, as was mentioned by at least one poster in this thread (I am not about to do a search to find it), the agency voided the ticket once AZ cancelled the flights, that means that there was both no reservation and no valid ticket (certainly the ticket was still physically present but in the agency's and the airline's view it was no longer in the database and if used could have created problems). So in this case, the ticket would need to be 'reissued' forcing the fare that was valid on 5 April, i.e. +-$180.
Hope this helps.
After the problem was noticed, AZ cancelled most if not all reservations. But people still had physical tickets in their possession or the agencies still had them but hadn't mailed them. If all that was done was that the reservation was cancelled, "reinstating" mean rebooking the flights to match the ticket that was already issued.
If however, as was mentioned by at least one poster in this thread (I am not about to do a search to find it), the agency voided the ticket once AZ cancelled the flights, that means that there was both no reservation and no valid ticket (certainly the ticket was still physically present but in the agency's and the airline's view it was no longer in the database and if used could have created problems). So in this case, the ticket would need to be 'reissued' forcing the fare that was valid on 5 April, i.e. +-$180.
Hope this helps.
It's easier for more of us to tell whether or not our reservations were cancelled, but it's not going to be obvious to most whether the ticket was cancelled/voided & "reissued" or not. So another question. Would a "reissue" in this situation = a new ticket number or not?
Thanks in advance.
Apr 8, 2006, 10:15 pm
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Originally Posted by GUWonder
I only care about semantics when there are material implications -- like here, for example, where some word may mean a repricing will be triggered and another word need not mean that. 
Apr 8, 2006, 10:18 pm
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Originally Posted by Spiff
AZ cannot cancel a contract and then attempt to put a new contract in place of the canceled one.
Apr 8, 2006, 10:21 pm
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Originally Posted by Gardyloo
I think the 509 number was given out by the Orbitz spokesperson; however I suspect that it's more than one seat per transaction on average, plus whatever totals were sold through other channels including Travelocity etc.
By the way, the story has made it to Beijing. http://english.people.com.cn/200604/...09_256979.html
By the way, the story has made it to Beijing. http://english.people.com.cn/200604/...09_256979.html
The regular business fare on that route is 2,258 dollars.
Apr 8, 2006, 10:23 pm
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Of course they probably did not need to honor the ticket in the first place either. Under the reasonable person test, if a reasonable person can understand the contract to be a mistake then the contract is voidable - consideration or no consideration.
While I think it is slimy to change the rules, saying they have to honor the original rules is like saying they have to give you the original ticket. They don't but they are being nice.
Gary
PS: It was a lot easier accepting that I cant add a long stopover in Italy when I got a nice guidebook on Cyprus - great looking country.
While I think it is slimy to change the rules, saying they have to honor the original rules is like saying they have to give you the original ticket. They don't but they are being nice.
Gary
PS: It was a lot easier accepting that I cant add a long stopover in Italy when I got a nice guidebook on Cyprus - great looking country.
Apr 8, 2006, 10:25 pm
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Originally Posted by GUWonder
So another question. Would a "reissue" in this situation = a new ticket number or not?
Thanks in advance.
Thanks in advance.
Another way to tell if the ticket was "reissued" is that the date of issue on the ticket will not be 5 April. It will be the date that the new ticket was physically created.
"Reissue" would not necessarily mean repricing if repricing means using the fare that is applicable on the date of reissue (that $33 fare obviously no longer exists). When they reissue the ticket, they would have to force the price to be what it was on the original ticket (there are ways for them to do that through their reservation system).