Feb 11, 2015, 11:49 am
Last edit by: drewguy
If you've never gone through this process read this before posting!
Note: Please consider that with high probability, United is monitoring this thread, so please pay attention on what you post!
DOT Investigation Updates
-------
According to USA Today, Ben Mutzabaugh:
Note that United has also accidentally cancelled "legitimate" tickets paid for in USD, purchased in USD from LHR... Please check your other tickets if purchased today to ensure they were not unilaterally cancelled.
However, there is no chance at all that you can have your tickets re-instated if you complain to DOT on the basis of DOT rule § 399.88:
Form for filing DOT complaint. File complaint as soon as your ticket is cancelled.
Link to PDF of enforcement bodies for European customers affected. File complaint as soon as your ticket is cancelled.
Tips for DOT Complaint:
Template For Complaint:
-----
Tips for retrieving your ticket number:
https://www.united.com/web/en-US/app...NRCD=2/11/2015
Freedom of Information Act Request
File #2015-147, Office of the Secretary of Transportation - Receipt acknowledged 3/13/15
http://www.dot.gov/individuals/foia/office-secretary-foia-information
Relevant excerpt from my request on 2/24/15. There no need for multiple requests for the same thing, though feel free to request more or different information obviously. I'll post any updates as I get them.
"Under the Freedom of Information Act, 5 U.S. C. subsection 552, I am requesting access to any and all records of correspondence, including electronic, between anyone working for, or on the behalf of, United Airlines and its subsidiaries, and with anyone working for, or on the behalf of, the Department of Transportation; specifically this would include only the date range beginning on February 11th, 2015 through and including February 24th, 2015.
In addition, I am requesting access to any and all internal records and correspondence in relation to coming to the decision made on February 23rd, 2015 regarding the Office of Aviation Enforcement and Proceedings Determination Regarding United Airlines Mistaken Fare, with the exception of any of the consumer submitted complaints via phone, email, website, or letter. Specifically, this would be any records beginning on February 11th, 2015 through and including February 24th, 2015."
Note: Please consider that with high probability, United is monitoring this thread, so please pay attention on what you post!
DOT Investigation Updates
- 02/23/15: DOT says UA does not have to honor the fare; link to DOT's full explanation (pdf)
- 02/12/15: DOT Statement
- 02/12/15: fox news mentions DOT investigation and mention update by 5:00 pm ET -- posted by xSTRIKEx6864
- 02/12/15: Fox news clip -- posted by FlyingLasse
- 02/12/15: Another clip on fox news interviewing the pointsguy -- posted by FlyingLasse
- 02/12/15: Person in charge at the dot is Alex Taday (don't bombard him with email - or we will all regret it) -- posted by sonofzeus
- 02/12/15: Fox News update: UA honoring fares will depends on complaints made at the DOT.... -- posted by synd
-------
According to USA Today, Ben Mutzabaugh:
United is voiding the bookings of several thousand individuals who were attempting to take advantage of an error a third-party software provider made when it applied an incorrect currency exchange rate, despite United having properly filed its fares. Most of these bookings were for travel originating in the United Kingdom, and the level of bookings made with Danish Kroner as the local currency was significantly higher than normal during the limited period that customers made these bookings.
However, there is no chance at all that you can have your tickets re-instated if you complain to DOT on the basis of DOT rule § 399.88:
§ 399.88 Prohibition on post-purchase price increase.
(a) It is an unfair and deceptive practice within the meaning of 49 U.S.C. 41712 for any seller of scheduled air transportation within, to or from the United States, or of a tour (i.e., a combination of air transportation and ground or cruise accommodations), or tour component (e.g., a hotel stay) that includes scheduled air transportation within, to or from the United States, to increase the price of that air transportation, tour or tour component to a consumer, including but not limited to an increase in the price of the seat, an increase in the price for the carriage of passenger baggage, or an increase in an applicable fuel surcharge, after the air transportation has been purchased by the consumer, except in the case of an increase in a government-imposed tax or fee. A purchase is deemed to have occurred when the full amount agreed upon has been paid by the consumer.
(a) It is an unfair and deceptive practice within the meaning of 49 U.S.C. 41712 for any seller of scheduled air transportation within, to or from the United States, or of a tour (i.e., a combination of air transportation and ground or cruise accommodations), or tour component (e.g., a hotel stay) that includes scheduled air transportation within, to or from the United States, to increase the price of that air transportation, tour or tour component to a consumer, including but not limited to an increase in the price of the seat, an increase in the price for the carriage of passenger baggage, or an increase in an applicable fuel surcharge, after the air transportation has been purchased by the consumer, except in the case of an increase in a government-imposed tax or fee. A purchase is deemed to have occurred when the full amount agreed upon has been paid by the consumer.
Link to PDF of enforcement bodies for European customers affected. File complaint as soon as your ticket is cancelled.
Tips for DOT Complaint:
- File on DOT for every ticket number affected.
- If you have one reservation with four people traveling (four tickets) file 4 DOT complaints, one per ticket.
- If you have separate reservations, file a DOT complaint for each.
- The DOT complaint website may take several minutes to load, depending on demand.
- When you go to upload a file, be careful as it will reset all your radio buttons. So, if you want a copy of the complaint, make sure you double check that "Yes" is still selected before submitting, especially if you upload a file.
Template For Complaint:
United has unilaterally cancelled my ticket without my consent.
Facts:
1. The ticket was ticketed (had a ticket number).
2. I received a confirmation number, ticket number, and emails stating both
3. The ticket was paid for and my credit card charged.
United must reinstate the ticket within its original cabin. This trip is for travel TO the United States.
At no time during the booking process was any other fare than the Danish Krone equivalent displayed. As a reasonable, prudent consumer, I believed I was paying the price displayed to me on the website. United never sent or displayed the equivalent fare in any other currency.
Trip Details
Ticket #: 016XXXXXXXXXX
PNR: XXXXXX
Routing: LHR-EWR-LAX-HNL
Attachments: Attached is a document showing the ticket, routing, and providing proof that the reservation was ticketed.
Filename: Cancelled - UA Reservation - LHR-EWR-LAX-HNL - XXXXXX - 016XXXXXXXXXX.pdf
+-------------------------------------------------------+
| Relevant Law |
| http://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/399.88 |
+-------------------------------------------------------+
§ 399.88 Prohibition on post-purchase price increase.
(a) It is an unfair and deceptive practice within the meaning of 49 U.S.C. 41712 for any seller of scheduled air transportation within, to or from the United States, or of a tour (i.e., a combination of air transportation and ground or cruise accommodations), or tour component (e.g., a hotel stay) that includes scheduled air transportation within, to or from the United States, to increase the price of that air transportation, tour or tour component to a consumer, including but not limited to an increase in the price of the seat, an increase in the price for the carriage of passenger baggage, or an increase in an applicable fuel surcharge, after the air transportation has been purchased by the consumer, except in the case of an increase in a government-imposed tax or fee. A purchase is deemed to have occurred when the full amount agreed upon has been paid by the consumer.
+-------------------------------------------------------+
| Relevant FAQ |
| http://airconsumer.ost.dot.gov/rules/EAPP_2_FAQ.pdf |
+-------------------------------------------------------+
Does the prohibition on post-purchase price increases in section 399.88(a) apply in the situation where a carrier mistakenly offers an airfare due to a computer problem or human error and a consumer purchases the ticket at that fare before the carrier is able to fix the mistake?
Section 399.88(a) states that it is an unfair and deceptive practice for any seller of scheduled air transportation within, to, or from the United States, or of a tour or tour component that includes scheduled air transportation within, to, or from the United States, to increase the price of that air transportation to a consumer after the air transportation has been purchased by the consumer, except in the case of a government-imposed tax or fee and only if the passenger is advised of a possible increase before purchasing a ticket. A purchase occurs when the full amount agreed upon has been paid by the consumer. Therefore, if a consumer purchases a fare and that consumer receives confirmation (such as a confirmation email and/or the purchase appears on their credit card statement or online account summary) of their purchase, then the seller of air transportation cannot increase the price of that air transportation to that consumer, even when the fare is a “mistake.”
Facts:
1. The ticket was ticketed (had a ticket number).
2. I received a confirmation number, ticket number, and emails stating both
3. The ticket was paid for and my credit card charged.
United must reinstate the ticket within its original cabin. This trip is for travel TO the United States.
At no time during the booking process was any other fare than the Danish Krone equivalent displayed. As a reasonable, prudent consumer, I believed I was paying the price displayed to me on the website. United never sent or displayed the equivalent fare in any other currency.
Trip Details
Ticket #: 016XXXXXXXXXX
PNR: XXXXXX
Routing: LHR-EWR-LAX-HNL
Attachments: Attached is a document showing the ticket, routing, and providing proof that the reservation was ticketed.
Filename: Cancelled - UA Reservation - LHR-EWR-LAX-HNL - XXXXXX - 016XXXXXXXXXX.pdf
+-------------------------------------------------------+
| Relevant Law |
| http://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/399.88 |
+-------------------------------------------------------+
§ 399.88 Prohibition on post-purchase price increase.
(a) It is an unfair and deceptive practice within the meaning of 49 U.S.C. 41712 for any seller of scheduled air transportation within, to or from the United States, or of a tour (i.e., a combination of air transportation and ground or cruise accommodations), or tour component (e.g., a hotel stay) that includes scheduled air transportation within, to or from the United States, to increase the price of that air transportation, tour or tour component to a consumer, including but not limited to an increase in the price of the seat, an increase in the price for the carriage of passenger baggage, or an increase in an applicable fuel surcharge, after the air transportation has been purchased by the consumer, except in the case of an increase in a government-imposed tax or fee. A purchase is deemed to have occurred when the full amount agreed upon has been paid by the consumer.
+-------------------------------------------------------+
| Relevant FAQ |
| http://airconsumer.ost.dot.gov/rules/EAPP_2_FAQ.pdf |
+-------------------------------------------------------+
Does the prohibition on post-purchase price increases in section 399.88(a) apply in the situation where a carrier mistakenly offers an airfare due to a computer problem or human error and a consumer purchases the ticket at that fare before the carrier is able to fix the mistake?
Section 399.88(a) states that it is an unfair and deceptive practice for any seller of scheduled air transportation within, to, or from the United States, or of a tour or tour component that includes scheduled air transportation within, to, or from the United States, to increase the price of that air transportation to a consumer after the air transportation has been purchased by the consumer, except in the case of a government-imposed tax or fee and only if the passenger is advised of a possible increase before purchasing a ticket. A purchase occurs when the full amount agreed upon has been paid by the consumer. Therefore, if a consumer purchases a fare and that consumer receives confirmation (such as a confirmation email and/or the purchase appears on their credit card statement or online account summary) of their purchase, then the seller of air transportation cannot increase the price of that air transportation to that consumer, even when the fare is a “mistake.”
Tips for retrieving your ticket number:
- paste(right click copy link location first) following link into your web browser
- change XXXXXX next to COPNR= for your reservation number and LASTNAME next to LN= for you SURNAME
- go to the webpage address you have just created
https://www.united.com/web/en-US/app...NRCD=2/11/2015
Originally Posted by MatthewLAX
Originally Posted by MatthewLAX View Post
R E L A X
Breathe deep.
Congrats on all who got in.
Now comes the fun part.
1. Discovery - mistake fare is posted on FT. Novices frantically checks how much vacation time they have and if the dates of availability mesh with their schedules. Experienced FTers just book it and worry about contacting spouses or their boss later. Word spreads like wildfire.
2. Excitement - Tickets purchased, confirmation emails received and dates of travel shared with other FTers. Discussions of what to see and do and where to stay crop up in other threads. Novices contact source to change seats or inquire about upgrades, Seasoned FTers sit back and enjoy reading the discussion threads.
3. Stress Stage 1 - Concern over paper ticket delivery - Novices Frantically check otheFedEx website every few hours, constant monitoring of driveway for FedEx truck. Seasoned FT veterans sit back and relax.
4. Glee and happiness - Paper tickets in hand, vacation request submitted, spouses finally informed, hotel reservations made and bragging to friends and co-workers begins. Both novices and experts get very excited.
5. Stress Stage 2 - Rumors of fare not being honored, discussion threads about the airline and ticketing agency ensue. Rumors crop up like crabgrass at this stage. Many FTers begin to worry excessively about whether or not the trip will happen. Novices make non-refundable and financial committments to their trip. Seasoned FTers make mixed drinks (and maybe a sandwich) and is patient.
6. Reality Check - Accurate information is obtained - usually takes place a week to 10 days after mistake fare is published. Confirmed information from the source as to whether or not tickets will be honored.
7a. Pure Joy (Icelandair style- Fare is Honored) - Lots of happy people, FT threads on shared information regarding hotels, restaurants, tours, etc. Jealousy from others sets in. First "FT guinea pigs" embark, post confirmation threads that all is ok.
7b Hostile Feelings (Copa Airlines Style - fare is not honored) - Many angry and disappointed FTers. Refunds are issued. Novices have multiple discussion threads of lawsuits and hostile correspondence, FT pros mutter "c'est la vie" and look for the next fare mistake.
8a Success (Honored) - Trip Report thread becomes very active
R E L A X
Breathe deep.
Congrats on all who got in.
Now comes the fun part.
1. Discovery - mistake fare is posted on FT. Novices frantically checks how much vacation time they have and if the dates of availability mesh with their schedules. Experienced FTers just book it and worry about contacting spouses or their boss later. Word spreads like wildfire.
2. Excitement - Tickets purchased, confirmation emails received and dates of travel shared with other FTers. Discussions of what to see and do and where to stay crop up in other threads. Novices contact source to change seats or inquire about upgrades, Seasoned FTers sit back and enjoy reading the discussion threads.
3. Stress Stage 1 - Concern over paper ticket delivery - Novices Frantically check otheFedEx website every few hours, constant monitoring of driveway for FedEx truck. Seasoned FT veterans sit back and relax.
4. Glee and happiness - Paper tickets in hand, vacation request submitted, spouses finally informed, hotel reservations made and bragging to friends and co-workers begins. Both novices and experts get very excited.
5. Stress Stage 2 - Rumors of fare not being honored, discussion threads about the airline and ticketing agency ensue. Rumors crop up like crabgrass at this stage. Many FTers begin to worry excessively about whether or not the trip will happen. Novices make non-refundable and financial committments to their trip. Seasoned FTers make mixed drinks (and maybe a sandwich) and is patient.
6. Reality Check - Accurate information is obtained - usually takes place a week to 10 days after mistake fare is published. Confirmed information from the source as to whether or not tickets will be honored.
7a. Pure Joy (Icelandair style- Fare is Honored) - Lots of happy people, FT threads on shared information regarding hotels, restaurants, tours, etc. Jealousy from others sets in. First "FT guinea pigs" embark, post confirmation threads that all is ok.
7b Hostile Feelings (Copa Airlines Style - fare is not honored) - Many angry and disappointed FTers. Refunds are issued. Novices have multiple discussion threads of lawsuits and hostile correspondence, FT pros mutter "c'est la vie" and look for the next fare mistake.
8a Success (Honored) - Trip Report thread becomes very active
Freedom of Information Act Request
File #2015-147, Office of the Secretary of Transportation - Receipt acknowledged 3/13/15
http://www.dot.gov/individuals/foia/office-secretary-foia-information
Relevant excerpt from my request on 2/24/15. There no need for multiple requests for the same thing, though feel free to request more or different information obviously. I'll post any updates as I get them.
"Under the Freedom of Information Act, 5 U.S. C. subsection 552, I am requesting access to any and all records of correspondence, including electronic, between anyone working for, or on the behalf of, United Airlines and its subsidiaries, and with anyone working for, or on the behalf of, the Department of Transportation; specifically this would include only the date range beginning on February 11th, 2015 through and including February 24th, 2015.
In addition, I am requesting access to any and all internal records and correspondence in relation to coming to the decision made on February 23rd, 2015 regarding the Office of Aviation Enforcement and Proceedings Determination Regarding United Airlines Mistaken Fare, with the exception of any of the consumer submitted complaints via phone, email, website, or letter. Specifically, this would be any records beginning on February 11th, 2015 through and including February 24th, 2015."
[PREM FARE GONE] UA: NCL-EWR 600 DKK (mistaken fare) DOT ruled; see wiki for link
Feb 11, 2015, 1:32 pm
#1366
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: ORF
Programs: UA Silver, MR titanium
Posts: 2,020
I have same problem, I tried western Union location and on the phone and online, but keep getting errors, so has anyone done WU before or just go to the airport and try pray it works?
Feb 11, 2015, 1:33 pm
#1367
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: LAX
Posts: 295
Feb 11, 2015, 1:35 pm
#1369
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Atlanta, GA Hub Captive
Programs: DL GM, FL A+ Elite, WN A List
Posts: 303
Feb 11, 2015, 1:35 pm
#1370
Join Date: Feb 2012
Programs: Aadvantage
Posts: 49
Something I wish I had considered trying at the time was multi-city ending in the US but I was more concerned with getting the fare booked so I can't complaint.
Got LHR-IAH-GIG-IAH-LHR over New Years down
I can always go without checked luggage instead.
Got LHR-IAH-GIG-IAH-LHR over New Years down
I can always go without checked luggage instead.
Feb 11, 2015, 1:36 pm
#1372
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 17,422
Heck, a couple of months ago, I was buying a intra-Europe ticket and, after complaining about the way it was being priced (dynamic currency conversion) I was told by the airline (I think it was Aer Lingus) to use another country of residence! So I basically had to use a foreign site to avoid getting scammed BY THE AIRLINE!
Feb 11, 2015, 1:37 pm
#1373
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: ICT
Programs: AA ExP
Posts: 1,860
It looks like trolls (and a million other evolutionary changes to the process) have forced an update to the classic "stages of mistake fares", so I took a stab at it.
Original (I assume; if a better FT historian can point me to a more original post, that'd be great)
Updated version:
-------------------------------------------
Ahhhh....the emotional phases of a legitimate* mistake fare.
1. Discovery - mistake fare is posted on FT. Novices frantically check how much vacation time they have and if the dates of availability mesh with their schedules. Experienced FTers just check their TripIt to line things up with existing trips and hotel mistakes they have already booked and then book it and worry about contacting spouses or their boss later. Word spreads like wildfire. Bloggers blog; trolls gnash their teeth.
2. Excitement - Tickets purchased, confirmation emails received and dates of travel shared with other FTers. Many feel so lucky they contemplate buying Powerball tickets. Discussions of what to see and do and where to stay crop up in other threads. The Timbuktu destination forum sees a sudden burst of activity. The Travel Photography forum gets three new threads entitled something like "Which camra is best 4 Timbuktu???????" Seasoned FTers sit back and enjoy reading the discussion threads.
3. Stress Stage 1 - Concern over e-ticket delivery causes novices to frantically check their email inbox every few seconds, constantly monitoring their iPhones for a Gmail notification. Seasoned FT veterans sit back and relax, having already PDFed the eticket receipt from the website. Kind veterans give step by step instructions to the newbies, only to have their posts buried under several pages of fretting and the question re-asked 16 minutes later. Helpful "thread monitor" members post either soothing or derisive comments pointing repeated questions back to already-given answers.
4. Kindergarten - Jealous, self-righteous trolls show up a few hours after the deal (their timing because of not having noticed the thread in time) and begin to pontificate upon the hacking, fraud, and all manner of illegal and immoral behavior that clearly had ensued, predicting with near certainty that anyone that booked the ticket would have their frequent flyer accounts shut down, be banned from flying, and be sent to Guantanamo. And if by some lucky break they weren't, they wish they had!
5. Backlash - Veteran FTers retort smugly, listing from memory a litany of similar mistake fares that were honored and did not result in so much as a traffic ticket. The truly elite recite 49 CFR 41712 § 399.88(a) from memory. Some hint at non-public mistake fares they've enjoyed; the true ninjas just enjoy thinking about them.
6. Stress Stage 2 - Novices call the airline to correct a letter on their name, ask for exit row seats as a one-time exception because they're almost silver, and worry whether they're going to get the $7.93 refunded that the airline overcharged them in taxes. Veterans angrily berate them for having called or being such tightwads. Novices give entire biography, reason for trip, and dietary desires while asking a simple question; three veterans simultaneously reply with a monosyllabic answer or ignore the question altogether.
7. Premature Jubilation - Re-confirmations from the airline's Twitter account safely PDFed, vacation request submitted, spouses finally informed, hotel reservations made and bragging to friends and co-workers begins. Both novices and experts get very excited.
8. Stress Stage 3 - Rumors of fare not being honored, troll posts regurgitated, discussion threads about the airline and ticketing agency ensue. Predictions about how much money the airline will lose range from -$3 million to $7 trillion, with little basis for the estimates. Some think this will be a PR coup for the airline, upping revenue substantially, while others are certain they'll slip into bankruptcy. Armchair lawyers and estate lawyers are suddenly experts on contract law, transportation law, and advertising law with terms like "mutual mistake" flying, helpfully appended with authority-boosting things like "Goofus v. Gallant, Superior Court of Ottawa". Rumors crop up like crabgrass at this stage. Many FTers begin to worry excessively about whether or not the trip will happen. Novices make non-refundable and financial commitments to their trip. Some do so in hopes of forcing the airline to pay for them if they decide to cancel. Seasoned FTers make mixed drinks (and maybe a sandwich) and are patient.
9a. Mass Cancellations - Novices quiver in fear. Veterans file DOT complaints. Some reservations are unaffected and speculation ensues that the lucky few must have booked using a Diners Club card while in Incognito Mode after having clicked through from Kayak and used a United codeshare of an Edelweiss Air flight.
9aa. DOT Bomb - DOT decides to come up with some Clintonesque definitions of the words "within, to or from" and allows the cancellations to stand. The trolls show up to say I told you so, forgetting about Guantanamo.
9ab. X Marks the DOT - DOT announces the fare will be honored. (However, because SWISS is domiciled in Zimbabwe and spent on lawyers 3x the face value of the tickets, they're exempt. Some vow to never book a mistake again on SWISS, other vow the precise opposite to punish SWISS. All LX passengers are kicking themselves for not having booked on SQ when they were wavering between the two.)
9b. Confirmation - The airline announces they'll honor the fare while vigorously patting themselves on the back for being so nice.
10. Jubilation - Everyone is jubilant. A few trolls show up to lament the sad state of affairs where airlines must honor advertised prices and face a downside to sloppiness, but most retreat to their caves and prepare fresh spins on old canards for the next mistake fare.
11. Reality Check - Accurate information is obtained - usually takes place a week or two after mistake fare is published. Details about chauffeur, changability, refunds ("I booked it over my great-grandma's wedding! I have to cancel...
"), ideal seat assignments, things to do in Timbuktu, etc are all established and added to the Wiki. Novices learn more about GDSes, NOGO, CheckMyTrip, codeshare agreements, VirtuallyThere, joint ventures, Saudia, conjunctive tickets, Finnair, etc than they ever wanted to know. Airline and GDS moles make marvelous and slightly creepy posts through third parties, giving essential info. PMs fly.
12. First Success - First person flies, and posts diagrams of the ticket counters and bathrooms of origin airport, details which agents were friendly and which cussed him out, gives the GDS commands the agent needs to type to re-instate the ticket, explains how to get the chauffeur even if they don't want to give it ("Swagger up to chauffeur counter wearing tux while holding poodle on leash..."), and how to pre-order lobster thermidor. Still-nervous novices post, asking questions the first flier just answered. A few naysayer trolls sally forth to point out the grammar and punctuation errors of the first flier. Most people thank the first flier heartily.
13. Complete Success - Trip Report forum becomes very active.
* as distinguished from 4-Mile and LM cabotage
Original (I assume; if a better FT historian can point me to a more original post, that'd be great)
Ahhhh....the emotional phases of a mistake fare.
1. Discovery - mistake fare is posted on FT. Novices frantically checks how much vacation time they have and if the dates of availability mesh with their schedules. Experienced FTers just book it and worry about contacting spouses or their boss later. Word spreads like wildfire.
2. Excitement - Tickets purchased, confirmation emails received and dates of travel shared with other FTers. Discussions of what to see and do and where to stay crop up in other threads. Novices contact source to change seats or inquire about upgrades, Seasoned FTers sit back and enjoy reading the discussion threads.
3. Stress Stage 1 - Concern over paper ticket delivery - Novices Frantically check otheFedEx website every few hours, constant monitoring of driveway for FedEx truck. Seasoned FT veterans sit back and relax.
4. Glee and happiness - Paper tickets in hand, vacation request submitted, spouses finally informed, hotel reservations made and bragging to friends and co-workers begins. Both novices and experts get very excited.
5. Stress Stage 2 - Rumors of fare not being honored, discussion threads about the airline and ticketing agency ensue. Rumors crop up like crabgrass at this stage. Many FTers begin to worry excessively about whether or not the trip will happen. Novices make non-refundable and financial committments to their trip. Seasoned FTers make mixed drinks (and maybe a sandwich) and is patient.
6. Reality Check - Accurate information is obtained - usually takes place a week to 10 days after mistake fare is published. Confirmed information from the source as to whether or not tickets will be honored.
7a. Pure Joy (Icelandair style- Fare is Honored) - Lots of happy people, FT threads on shared information regarding hotels, restaurants, tours, etc. Jealousy from others sets in. First "FT guinea pigs" embark, post confirmation threads that all is ok.
7b Hostile Feelings (Copa Airlines Style - fare is not honored) - Many angry and disappointed FTers. Refunds are issued. Novices have multiple discussion threads of lawsuits and hostile correspondence, FT pros mutter "c'est la vie" and look for the next fare mistake.
8a Success (Honored) - Trip Report thread becomes very active
1. Discovery - mistake fare is posted on FT. Novices frantically checks how much vacation time they have and if the dates of availability mesh with their schedules. Experienced FTers just book it and worry about contacting spouses or their boss later. Word spreads like wildfire.
2. Excitement - Tickets purchased, confirmation emails received and dates of travel shared with other FTers. Discussions of what to see and do and where to stay crop up in other threads. Novices contact source to change seats or inquire about upgrades, Seasoned FTers sit back and enjoy reading the discussion threads.
3. Stress Stage 1 - Concern over paper ticket delivery - Novices Frantically check otheFedEx website every few hours, constant monitoring of driveway for FedEx truck. Seasoned FT veterans sit back and relax.
4. Glee and happiness - Paper tickets in hand, vacation request submitted, spouses finally informed, hotel reservations made and bragging to friends and co-workers begins. Both novices and experts get very excited.
5. Stress Stage 2 - Rumors of fare not being honored, discussion threads about the airline and ticketing agency ensue. Rumors crop up like crabgrass at this stage. Many FTers begin to worry excessively about whether or not the trip will happen. Novices make non-refundable and financial committments to their trip. Seasoned FTers make mixed drinks (and maybe a sandwich) and is patient.
6. Reality Check - Accurate information is obtained - usually takes place a week to 10 days after mistake fare is published. Confirmed information from the source as to whether or not tickets will be honored.
7a. Pure Joy (Icelandair style- Fare is Honored) - Lots of happy people, FT threads on shared information regarding hotels, restaurants, tours, etc. Jealousy from others sets in. First "FT guinea pigs" embark, post confirmation threads that all is ok.
7b Hostile Feelings (Copa Airlines Style - fare is not honored) - Many angry and disappointed FTers. Refunds are issued. Novices have multiple discussion threads of lawsuits and hostile correspondence, FT pros mutter "c'est la vie" and look for the next fare mistake.
8a Success (Honored) - Trip Report thread becomes very active
-------------------------------------------
Ahhhh....the emotional phases of a legitimate* mistake fare.
1. Discovery - mistake fare is posted on FT. Novices frantically check how much vacation time they have and if the dates of availability mesh with their schedules. Experienced FTers just check their TripIt to line things up with existing trips and hotel mistakes they have already booked and then book it and worry about contacting spouses or their boss later. Word spreads like wildfire. Bloggers blog; trolls gnash their teeth.
2. Excitement - Tickets purchased, confirmation emails received and dates of travel shared with other FTers. Many feel so lucky they contemplate buying Powerball tickets. Discussions of what to see and do and where to stay crop up in other threads. The Timbuktu destination forum sees a sudden burst of activity. The Travel Photography forum gets three new threads entitled something like "Which camra is best 4 Timbuktu???????" Seasoned FTers sit back and enjoy reading the discussion threads.
3. Stress Stage 1 - Concern over e-ticket delivery causes novices to frantically check their email inbox every few seconds, constantly monitoring their iPhones for a Gmail notification. Seasoned FT veterans sit back and relax, having already PDFed the eticket receipt from the website. Kind veterans give step by step instructions to the newbies, only to have their posts buried under several pages of fretting and the question re-asked 16 minutes later. Helpful "thread monitor" members post either soothing or derisive comments pointing repeated questions back to already-given answers.
4. Kindergarten - Jealous, self-righteous trolls show up a few hours after the deal (their timing because of not having noticed the thread in time) and begin to pontificate upon the hacking, fraud, and all manner of illegal and immoral behavior that clearly had ensued, predicting with near certainty that anyone that booked the ticket would have their frequent flyer accounts shut down, be banned from flying, and be sent to Guantanamo. And if by some lucky break they weren't, they wish they had!
5. Backlash - Veteran FTers retort smugly, listing from memory a litany of similar mistake fares that were honored and did not result in so much as a traffic ticket. The truly elite recite 49 CFR 41712 § 399.88(a) from memory. Some hint at non-public mistake fares they've enjoyed; the true ninjas just enjoy thinking about them.
6. Stress Stage 2 - Novices call the airline to correct a letter on their name, ask for exit row seats as a one-time exception because they're almost silver, and worry whether they're going to get the $7.93 refunded that the airline overcharged them in taxes. Veterans angrily berate them for having called or being such tightwads. Novices give entire biography, reason for trip, and dietary desires while asking a simple question; three veterans simultaneously reply with a monosyllabic answer or ignore the question altogether.
7. Premature Jubilation - Re-confirmations from the airline's Twitter account safely PDFed, vacation request submitted, spouses finally informed, hotel reservations made and bragging to friends and co-workers begins. Both novices and experts get very excited.
8. Stress Stage 3 - Rumors of fare not being honored, troll posts regurgitated, discussion threads about the airline and ticketing agency ensue. Predictions about how much money the airline will lose range from -$3 million to $7 trillion, with little basis for the estimates. Some think this will be a PR coup for the airline, upping revenue substantially, while others are certain they'll slip into bankruptcy. Armchair lawyers and estate lawyers are suddenly experts on contract law, transportation law, and advertising law with terms like "mutual mistake" flying, helpfully appended with authority-boosting things like "Goofus v. Gallant, Superior Court of Ottawa". Rumors crop up like crabgrass at this stage. Many FTers begin to worry excessively about whether or not the trip will happen. Novices make non-refundable and financial commitments to their trip. Some do so in hopes of forcing the airline to pay for them if they decide to cancel. Seasoned FTers make mixed drinks (and maybe a sandwich) and are patient.
9a. Mass Cancellations - Novices quiver in fear. Veterans file DOT complaints. Some reservations are unaffected and speculation ensues that the lucky few must have booked using a Diners Club card while in Incognito Mode after having clicked through from Kayak and used a United codeshare of an Edelweiss Air flight.
9aa. DOT Bomb - DOT decides to come up with some Clintonesque definitions of the words "within, to or from" and allows the cancellations to stand. The trolls show up to say I told you so, forgetting about Guantanamo.
9ab. X Marks the DOT - DOT announces the fare will be honored. (However, because SWISS is domiciled in Zimbabwe and spent on lawyers 3x the face value of the tickets, they're exempt. Some vow to never book a mistake again on SWISS, other vow the precise opposite to punish SWISS. All LX passengers are kicking themselves for not having booked on SQ when they were wavering between the two.)
9b. Confirmation - The airline announces they'll honor the fare while vigorously patting themselves on the back for being so nice.
10. Jubilation - Everyone is jubilant. A few trolls show up to lament the sad state of affairs where airlines must honor advertised prices and face a downside to sloppiness, but most retreat to their caves and prepare fresh spins on old canards for the next mistake fare.
11. Reality Check - Accurate information is obtained - usually takes place a week or two after mistake fare is published. Details about chauffeur, changability, refunds ("I booked it over my great-grandma's wedding! I have to cancel...
"), ideal seat assignments, things to do in Timbuktu, etc are all established and added to the Wiki. Novices learn more about GDSes, NOGO, CheckMyTrip, codeshare agreements, VirtuallyThere, joint ventures, Saudia, conjunctive tickets, Finnair, etc than they ever wanted to know. Airline and GDS moles make marvelous and slightly creepy posts through third parties, giving essential info. PMs fly.12. First Success - First person flies, and posts diagrams of the ticket counters and bathrooms of origin airport, details which agents were friendly and which cussed him out, gives the GDS commands the agent needs to type to re-instate the ticket, explains how to get the chauffeur even if they don't want to give it ("Swagger up to chauffeur counter wearing tux while holding poodle on leash..."), and how to pre-order lobster thermidor. Still-nervous novices post, asking questions the first flier just answered. A few naysayer trolls sally forth to point out the grammar and punctuation errors of the first flier. Most people thank the first flier heartily.
13. Complete Success - Trip Report forum becomes very active.
* as distinguished from 4-Mile and LM cabotage
Last edited by HansGolden; Feb 11, 2015 at 3:01 pm
Feb 11, 2015, 1:38 pm
#1374
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Canada
Programs: UA*1K MM SK EBG LATAM BL
Posts: 23,305
http://www.usatoday.com/story/todayi...t-68/23234223/
Some customers who tried to snag the fares were sent back to a U.S. point-of-sale page that re-priced their fares at normal prices. Others, however, reported via social media that they successfully bought the fares. Customers who did not log in to their frequent-flier accounts apparently had better luck, as did customers who left Denmark as their home country when entering their credit card information – even if it did not match their home address.
Some customers who tried to snag the fares were sent back to a U.S. point-of-sale page that re-priced their fares at normal prices. Others, however, reported via social media that they successfully bought the fares. Customers who did not log in to their frequent-flier accounts apparently had better luck, as did customers who left Denmark as their home country when entering their credit card information – even if it did not match their home address.
Feb 11, 2015, 1:39 pm
#1375
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Iowa City, IA
Posts: 337
This happened to me. I thought I was getting charged in DKK, and even my confirmation says it, but my pending amount is actually the same amount in US Dollars. Even if I accidentally charged it in dollars United should at least convert it, even at a poor rate its nowhere close to 1:1. Of course I haven't had it ticketed or gotten a receipt and its all pending. And my ticket was 345 Dkk, not over 3000 like yours haha
Feb 11, 2015, 1:41 pm
#1379
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Iowa City, IA
Posts: 337
It looks like trolls (and a million other evolutionary changes to the process) have forced an update to the classic "stages of mistake fares", so I took a stab at it.
Original (I assume; if a better FT historian can point me to a more original post, that'd be great)
Updated version:
-------------------------------------------
Ahhhh....the emotional phases of a legitimate* mistake fare.
1. Discovery - mistake fare is posted on FT. Novices frantically check how much vacation time they have and if the dates of availability mesh with their schedules. Experienced FTers just check their TripIt to line things up with existing trips and hotel mistakes they have booked and then book it and worry about contacting spouses or their boss later. Word spreads like wildfire. Bloggers blog; trolls gnash their teeth.
2. Excitement - Tickets purchased, confirmation emails received and dates of travel shared with other FTers. Many feel so lucky they contemplate buying Powerball tickets. Discussions of what to see and do and where to stay crop up in other threads. The Timbuktu destination forum sees a sudden burst of activity. The Travel Photography forum gets three new threads entitled something like "Which camra is best 4 Timbuktu???????" Seasoned FTers sit back and enjoy reading the discussion threads.
3. Stress Stage 1 - Concern over eticket delivery - Novices Frantically check their email inbox every few seconds, constantly monitoring their iPhones for a Gmail notification. Seasoned FT veterans sit back and relax, having already PDFed the eticket receipt. Kind veterans give step by step instructions to the newbies, only to have their posts buried under several pages of fretting and the question re-asked. Helpful "thread monitor" members post soothing or derisive comments pointing repeated questions back to already-given answers.
4. Kindergarten - Jealous, self-righteous trolls show up a few hours after the deal (their timing because of not having noticed the thread in time) and begin to pontificate upon the hacking, fraud, and all manner of illegal and immoral behavior that clearly had ensued, predicting with near certainty that anyone that booked the ticket would have their frequent flyer accounts shut down, be banned from flying, and be sent to Guantanamo. And if by some lucky break they weren't, they wish they had!
5. Backlash - Veteran FTers retort smugly, listing from memory a litany of similar mistake fares that were honored and did not result in so much as a traffic ticket. The truly elite recite 49 CFR 41712 § 399.88(a) from memory. Some hint at non-public mistake fares they've enjoyed; the true ninjas just enjoy thinking about them.
6. Stress Stage 2 - Novices call the airline to correct a letter on their name, ask for exit row seats as a one-time exception because they're almost silver, and worry whether they're going to get the $7.93 refunded that the airline overcharged them in taxes. Veterans angrily berate them for having called or being such tightwads. Novices give entire biography, reason for trip, and dietary desires while asking a simple question; three veterans simultaneously reply with a monosyllabic answer or ignore the question altogether.
7. Premature jubilation - Re-confirmations from the airline's Twitter account safely PDFed, vacation request submitted, spouses finally informed, hotel reservations made and bragging to friends and co-workers begins. Both novices and experts get very excited.
8. Stress Stage 3 - Rumors of fare not being honored, troll posts regurgitated, discussion threads about the airline and ticketing agency ensue. Predictions about how much money the airline will lose range from -$3 million to $7 trillion, with little basis for the estimates. Some think this will be a PR coup for the airline, upping revenue substantially, while others are certain they'll slip into bankruptcy. Armchair lawyers and estate lawyers are suddenly experts on contract law with terms like "mutual mistake" flying, helpfully appended with authority-boosting things like "Goofus v. Gallant, Superior Court of Ottawa". Rumors crop up like crabgrass at this stage. Many FTers begin to worry excessively about whether or not the trip will happen. Novices make non-refundable and financial commitments to their trip. Some do so in hopes of forcing the airline to pay for them if they decide to cancel. Seasoned FTers make mixed drinks (and maybe a sandwich) and are patient.
9a. Mass cancellations - Novices quiver in fear. Veterans file DOT complaints. Some reservations are unaffected and speculation ensues that the lucky few must have booked using a Diners Club card while in Incognito Mode after having clicked through from Kayak and used a United codeshare of a Edelweiss Air flight.
9aa. DOT Bomb - DOT decides to come up with some Clintonesque definitions of the words "within, to or from" and allows the cancellations to stand. The trolls show up to say I told you so, forgetting about Guantanamo.
9ab. X Marks the DOT - DOT announces the fare will be honored. (However, because SWISS is domiciled in Zimbabwe and spent on lawyers 3x the face value of the tickets, they're exempt. Some vow to never book a mistake again on SWISS, other vow the precise opposite to punish SWISS. All LX passengers are kicking themselves for not having booked on SQ when they were wavering between the two.)
9b. Confirmation - The airline announces they'll honor.
10. Jubilation - Everyone is jubilant. A few trolls show up to lament the sad state of affairs where airlines honor advertised prices and face a downside to sloppiness, but most retreat to their caves and prepare fresh spins on old canards for the next mistake fare.
11. Reality Check - Accurate information is obtained - usually takes place a week or two after mistake fare is published. Details about chauffeur, changability, refunds ("I booked it over my great-grandma's wedding! I have to cancel..."), ideal seat assignments, things to do in Timbuktu, etc are all established and added to the Wiki. Novices learn more about GDSes, NOGO, CheckMyTrip, codeshare agreements, VirtuallyThere, joint ventures, Saudia, conjunctive tickets, Finnair, etc than they ever wanted to know. Airline and GDS moles make marvelous and slightly creepy posts through third parties, giving essential info. PMs fly.
12. First Success - First person flies, and posts diagrams of the ticket counters and bathrooms of origin airport, details which agents were friendly and which cussed him out, explains how to get the chauffeur even if they don't want to give it ("Swagger up to chauffeur counter wearing tux while holding poodle on leash..."), and how to pre-order lobster thermidor. Still-nervous novices post, asking questions the first flier just answered. A few naysayer trolls sally forth to point out the grammar and punctuation errors of the first flier. Most people thank the first flier heartily.
13. Success - Trip Report thread becomes very active.
* as distinguished from 4 mile and LM cabotage
Original (I assume; if a better FT historian can point me to a more original post, that'd be great)
Updated version:
-------------------------------------------
Ahhhh....the emotional phases of a legitimate* mistake fare.
1. Discovery - mistake fare is posted on FT. Novices frantically check how much vacation time they have and if the dates of availability mesh with their schedules. Experienced FTers just check their TripIt to line things up with existing trips and hotel mistakes they have booked and then book it and worry about contacting spouses or their boss later. Word spreads like wildfire. Bloggers blog; trolls gnash their teeth.
2. Excitement - Tickets purchased, confirmation emails received and dates of travel shared with other FTers. Many feel so lucky they contemplate buying Powerball tickets. Discussions of what to see and do and where to stay crop up in other threads. The Timbuktu destination forum sees a sudden burst of activity. The Travel Photography forum gets three new threads entitled something like "Which camra is best 4 Timbuktu???????" Seasoned FTers sit back and enjoy reading the discussion threads.
3. Stress Stage 1 - Concern over eticket delivery - Novices Frantically check their email inbox every few seconds, constantly monitoring their iPhones for a Gmail notification. Seasoned FT veterans sit back and relax, having already PDFed the eticket receipt. Kind veterans give step by step instructions to the newbies, only to have their posts buried under several pages of fretting and the question re-asked. Helpful "thread monitor" members post soothing or derisive comments pointing repeated questions back to already-given answers.
4. Kindergarten - Jealous, self-righteous trolls show up a few hours after the deal (their timing because of not having noticed the thread in time) and begin to pontificate upon the hacking, fraud, and all manner of illegal and immoral behavior that clearly had ensued, predicting with near certainty that anyone that booked the ticket would have their frequent flyer accounts shut down, be banned from flying, and be sent to Guantanamo. And if by some lucky break they weren't, they wish they had!
5. Backlash - Veteran FTers retort smugly, listing from memory a litany of similar mistake fares that were honored and did not result in so much as a traffic ticket. The truly elite recite 49 CFR 41712 § 399.88(a) from memory. Some hint at non-public mistake fares they've enjoyed; the true ninjas just enjoy thinking about them.
6. Stress Stage 2 - Novices call the airline to correct a letter on their name, ask for exit row seats as a one-time exception because they're almost silver, and worry whether they're going to get the $7.93 refunded that the airline overcharged them in taxes. Veterans angrily berate them for having called or being such tightwads. Novices give entire biography, reason for trip, and dietary desires while asking a simple question; three veterans simultaneously reply with a monosyllabic answer or ignore the question altogether.
7. Premature jubilation - Re-confirmations from the airline's Twitter account safely PDFed, vacation request submitted, spouses finally informed, hotel reservations made and bragging to friends and co-workers begins. Both novices and experts get very excited.
8. Stress Stage 3 - Rumors of fare not being honored, troll posts regurgitated, discussion threads about the airline and ticketing agency ensue. Predictions about how much money the airline will lose range from -$3 million to $7 trillion, with little basis for the estimates. Some think this will be a PR coup for the airline, upping revenue substantially, while others are certain they'll slip into bankruptcy. Armchair lawyers and estate lawyers are suddenly experts on contract law with terms like "mutual mistake" flying, helpfully appended with authority-boosting things like "Goofus v. Gallant, Superior Court of Ottawa". Rumors crop up like crabgrass at this stage. Many FTers begin to worry excessively about whether or not the trip will happen. Novices make non-refundable and financial commitments to their trip. Some do so in hopes of forcing the airline to pay for them if they decide to cancel. Seasoned FTers make mixed drinks (and maybe a sandwich) and are patient.
9a. Mass cancellations - Novices quiver in fear. Veterans file DOT complaints. Some reservations are unaffected and speculation ensues that the lucky few must have booked using a Diners Club card while in Incognito Mode after having clicked through from Kayak and used a United codeshare of a Edelweiss Air flight.
9aa. DOT Bomb - DOT decides to come up with some Clintonesque definitions of the words "within, to or from" and allows the cancellations to stand. The trolls show up to say I told you so, forgetting about Guantanamo.
9ab. X Marks the DOT - DOT announces the fare will be honored. (However, because SWISS is domiciled in Zimbabwe and spent on lawyers 3x the face value of the tickets, they're exempt. Some vow to never book a mistake again on SWISS, other vow the precise opposite to punish SWISS. All LX passengers are kicking themselves for not having booked on SQ when they were wavering between the two.)
9b. Confirmation - The airline announces they'll honor.
10. Jubilation - Everyone is jubilant. A few trolls show up to lament the sad state of affairs where airlines honor advertised prices and face a downside to sloppiness, but most retreat to their caves and prepare fresh spins on old canards for the next mistake fare.
11. Reality Check - Accurate information is obtained - usually takes place a week or two after mistake fare is published. Details about chauffeur, changability, refunds ("I booked it over my great-grandma's wedding! I have to cancel...
"), ideal seat assignments, things to do in Timbuktu, etc are all established and added to the Wiki. Novices learn more about GDSes, NOGO, CheckMyTrip, codeshare agreements, VirtuallyThere, joint ventures, Saudia, conjunctive tickets, Finnair, etc than they ever wanted to know. Airline and GDS moles make marvelous and slightly creepy posts through third parties, giving essential info. PMs fly.12. First Success - First person flies, and posts diagrams of the ticket counters and bathrooms of origin airport, details which agents were friendly and which cussed him out, explains how to get the chauffeur even if they don't want to give it ("Swagger up to chauffeur counter wearing tux while holding poodle on leash..."), and how to pre-order lobster thermidor. Still-nervous novices post, asking questions the first flier just answered. A few naysayer trolls sally forth to point out the grammar and punctuation errors of the first flier. Most people thank the first flier heartily.
13. Success - Trip Report thread becomes very active.
* as distinguished from 4 mile and LM cabotage
Last edited by Pat89339; Feb 11, 2015 at 2:49 pm Reason: Edit quote per TOS.