The Zuji - Bucharest flight issues Thread
Oct 15, 2006, 5:27 am
#61
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Originally Posted by Jaimito Cartero
Knowledge is power. I'd suggest that she recheck the dates again, instead of calling her an outright liar. 
Many people will believe any line that's fed to them. There were some mention of Singapore law in the earlier part of this thread. I don't know if there are any experts here on it, but I'd try to find out what you're entitled to.
Many people will believe any line that's fed to them. There were some mention of Singapore law in the earlier part of this thread. I don't know if there are any experts here on it, but I'd try to find out what you're entitled to.
1. Whatever SABRE displays outside of Singapore does not matter. Zuji uses ABACUS and although it is hosted by SABRE, its availability classes are controlled (and manupilated) by ABACUS and airlines to show only the available classes it wants to sell in that market. ie SABRE in USA might show B class wide open, but in Singapore, your flight will show ZERO availability with B class waitlisting closed with no possibility of even requesting the seat.
2. Singapore law ... well, it does not protect the consumer.. especially when the consumer knows that the fare is incorrect. There was a case when someone online posted computer printers for sale. Instead of the asking price of $2400 per laser printer, it was listed as $24. Someone saw this and bought and paid 20 printers on his credit card which was charged. But the company decided not to sell the printers at those prices. So the purchaser took the company to court. The Court however defended the company saying that it is 'common knowledge' that such a printer could not have been offered at such a low price and that the purchaser knew that it was an error and decided to take advantage of the fact. The purchaser not only lost the case, but had to pay the legal costs of the company as well as his. Not to mention that his image has been tarnished by the newspapers as someone trying to cheat someone else!
In a nutshell, ... take whatever they are offering you.. ie ZUJI. Their hands are tied as only in ASIA, fares quoted on their CRS's are not guaranteed. And they'd have to get authorizations from the airlines issuing the tickets. If the airlines decide to rescind the fare, you're basically SOL with no recourse. And I speak from experience that the airlines can basically rescind anyfare anytime they like - in Asia. If you can get ZUJI to get an authorization from NW HQ, then it's a different matter. But then you'd need NW in SIN to accept the deal which IMO, they normally won't.
For whoever wants to fight the case, best of luck to you. Just hope that your name doesn't get flagged for immediate deportation / detention when you try to enter Singapore for the trial!
Oct 15, 2006, 7:06 am
#62
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I didn't book on Zuji so this is more hypothetical
I didn't know this was an incorrect fare and when I can buy a fare from the US to Europe for $350 all inc (see MR I think its WAS-MUC, but not sure) then $250 (give or take) is not that much out of the question. they typical person can not differentiate all the taxes. Additionally, my fare basis is > $100 USD so the no consideration piece is not valid either
I don't buy this arguement that the fare is known to be wrong. This isn't printers we are talking about, this is an item that is perishable, that the values fluctuate extremely from a very low end to an outrageously high end.
I didn't know this was an incorrect fare and when I can buy a fare from the US to Europe for $350 all inc (see MR I think its WAS-MUC, but not sure) then $250 (give or take) is not that much out of the question. they typical person can not differentiate all the taxes. Additionally, my fare basis is > $100 USD so the no consideration piece is not valid either
I don't buy this arguement that the fare is known to be wrong. This isn't printers we are talking about, this is an item that is perishable, that the values fluctuate extremely from a very low end to an outrageously high end.
Originally Posted by Guy Betsy
Can I just add a few words to this... as I've lived and worked in Singapore and know what you'd be entitled to...?
1. Whatever SABRE displays outside of Singapore does not matter. Zuji uses ABACUS and although it is hosted by SABRE, its availability classes are controlled (and manupilated) by ABACUS and airlines to show only the available classes it wants to sell in that market. ie SABRE in USA might show B class wide open, but in Singapore, your flight will show ZERO availability with B class waitlisting closed with no possibility of even requesting the seat.
2. Singapore law ... well, it does not protect the consumer.. especially when the consumer knows that the fare is incorrect. There was a case when someone online posted computer printers for sale. Instead of the asking price of $2400 per laser printer, it was listed as $24. Someone saw this and bought and paid 20 printers on his credit card which was charged. But the company decided not to sell the printers at those prices. So the purchaser took the company to court. The Court however defended the company saying that it is 'common knowledge' that such a printer could not have been offered at such a low price and that the purchaser knew that it was an error and decided to take advantage of the fact. The purchaser not only lost the case, but had to pay the legal costs of the company as well as his. Not to mention that his image has been tarnished by the newspapers as someone trying to cheat someone else!
In a nutshell, ... take whatever they are offering you.. ie ZUJI. Their hands are tied as only in ASIA, fares quoted on their CRS's are not guaranteed. And they'd have to get authorizations from the airlines issuing the tickets. If the airlines decide to rescind the fare, you're basically SOL with no recourse. And I speak from experience that the airlines can basically rescind anyfare anytime they like - in Asia. If you can get ZUJI to get an authorization from NW HQ, then it's a different matter. But then you'd need NW in SIN to accept the deal which IMO, they normally won't.
For whoever wants to fight the case, best of luck to you. Just hope that your name doesn't get flagged for immediate deportation / detention when you try to enter Singapore for the trial!
1. Whatever SABRE displays outside of Singapore does not matter. Zuji uses ABACUS and although it is hosted by SABRE, its availability classes are controlled (and manupilated) by ABACUS and airlines to show only the available classes it wants to sell in that market. ie SABRE in USA might show B class wide open, but in Singapore, your flight will show ZERO availability with B class waitlisting closed with no possibility of even requesting the seat.
2. Singapore law ... well, it does not protect the consumer.. especially when the consumer knows that the fare is incorrect. There was a case when someone online posted computer printers for sale. Instead of the asking price of $2400 per laser printer, it was listed as $24. Someone saw this and bought and paid 20 printers on his credit card which was charged. But the company decided not to sell the printers at those prices. So the purchaser took the company to court. The Court however defended the company saying that it is 'common knowledge' that such a printer could not have been offered at such a low price and that the purchaser knew that it was an error and decided to take advantage of the fact. The purchaser not only lost the case, but had to pay the legal costs of the company as well as his. Not to mention that his image has been tarnished by the newspapers as someone trying to cheat someone else!
In a nutshell, ... take whatever they are offering you.. ie ZUJI. Their hands are tied as only in ASIA, fares quoted on their CRS's are not guaranteed. And they'd have to get authorizations from the airlines issuing the tickets. If the airlines decide to rescind the fare, you're basically SOL with no recourse. And I speak from experience that the airlines can basically rescind anyfare anytime they like - in Asia. If you can get ZUJI to get an authorization from NW HQ, then it's a different matter. But then you'd need NW in SIN to accept the deal which IMO, they normally won't.
For whoever wants to fight the case, best of luck to you. Just hope that your name doesn't get flagged for immediate deportation / detention when you try to enter Singapore for the trial!
Oct 15, 2006, 8:42 am
#63
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: One of those "Fly-Over" states
Posts: 176
Originally Posted by Guy Betsy
Can I just add a few words to this... as I've lived and worked in Singapore and know what you'd be entitled to...?
1. Whatever SABRE displays outside of Singapore does not matter. Zuji uses ABACUS and although it is hosted by SABRE, its availability classes are controlled (and manupilated) by ABACUS and airlines to show only the available classes it wants to sell in that market. ie SABRE in USA might show B class wide open, but in Singapore, your flight will show ZERO availability with B class waitlisting closed with no possibility of even requesting the seat.
2. Singapore law ... well, it does not protect the consumer.. especially when the consumer knows that the fare is incorrect. There was a case when someone online posted computer printers for sale. Instead of the asking price of $2400 per laser printer, it was listed as $24. Someone saw this and bought and paid 20 printers on his credit card which was charged. But the company decided not to sell the printers at those prices. So the purchaser took the company to court. The Court however defended the company saying that it is 'common knowledge' that such a printer could not have been offered at such a low price and that the purchaser knew that it was an error and decided to take advantage of the fact. The purchaser not only lost the case, but had to pay the legal costs of the company as well as his. Not to mention that his image has been tarnished by the newspapers as someone trying to cheat someone else!
In a nutshell, ... take whatever they are offering you.. ie ZUJI. Their hands are tied as only in ASIA, fares quoted on their CRS's are not guaranteed. And they'd have to get authorizations from the airlines issuing the tickets. If the airlines decide to rescind the fare, you're basically SOL with no recourse. And I speak from experience that the airlines can basically rescind anyfare anytime they like - in Asia. If you can get ZUJI to get an authorization from NW HQ, then it's a different matter. But then you'd need NW in SIN to accept the deal which IMO, they normally won't.
For whoever wants to fight the case, best of luck to you. Just hope that your name doesn't get flagged for immediate deportation / detention when you try to enter Singapore for the trial!
1. Whatever SABRE displays outside of Singapore does not matter. Zuji uses ABACUS and although it is hosted by SABRE, its availability classes are controlled (and manupilated) by ABACUS and airlines to show only the available classes it wants to sell in that market. ie SABRE in USA might show B class wide open, but in Singapore, your flight will show ZERO availability with B class waitlisting closed with no possibility of even requesting the seat.
2. Singapore law ... well, it does not protect the consumer.. especially when the consumer knows that the fare is incorrect. There was a case when someone online posted computer printers for sale. Instead of the asking price of $2400 per laser printer, it was listed as $24. Someone saw this and bought and paid 20 printers on his credit card which was charged. But the company decided not to sell the printers at those prices. So the purchaser took the company to court. The Court however defended the company saying that it is 'common knowledge' that such a printer could not have been offered at such a low price and that the purchaser knew that it was an error and decided to take advantage of the fact. The purchaser not only lost the case, but had to pay the legal costs of the company as well as his. Not to mention that his image has been tarnished by the newspapers as someone trying to cheat someone else!
In a nutshell, ... take whatever they are offering you.. ie ZUJI. Their hands are tied as only in ASIA, fares quoted on their CRS's are not guaranteed. And they'd have to get authorizations from the airlines issuing the tickets. If the airlines decide to rescind the fare, you're basically SOL with no recourse. And I speak from experience that the airlines can basically rescind anyfare anytime they like - in Asia. If you can get ZUJI to get an authorization from NW HQ, then it's a different matter. But then you'd need NW in SIN to accept the deal which IMO, they normally won't.
For whoever wants to fight the case, best of luck to you. Just hope that your name doesn't get flagged for immediate deportation / detention when you try to enter Singapore for the trial!
I want to thank you for you (and Jaimito Cartero) for the time and effort it took to give us your background on this matter and advice
Based on GuyBetsy's post, it looks like it's best to say to Flo when she calls and can't deliver the BREE fare on all segments is:
A.) I understand ABCUS shows no availabiliiy. Would you please contact Northwest HQ. and ask for a wavier and get back with me, or
B) Agree to ticketing in a lower fare class and ask her to note in my record that, "I wanted the fare ticketed as I booked the reservation as a BREE fare and I politely object. Then start the complaint process along with everyone else once I have the tickets.
I lean toward Option B).
Suggestions Please
Oct 15, 2006, 11:11 am
#64
Join Date: Jun 2006
Programs: NW, UA
Posts: 22
Originally Posted by Sassy!
---------------------------
I want to thank you for you (and Jaimito Cartero) for the time and effort it took to give us your background on this matter and advice
Based on GuyBetsy's post, it looks like it's best to say to Flo when she calls and can't deliver the BREE fare on all segments is:
A.) I understand ABCUS shows no availabiliiy. Would you please contact Northwest HQ. and ask for a wavier and get back with me, or
B) Agree to ticketing in a lower fare class and ask her to note in my record that, "I wanted the fare ticketed as I booked the reservation as a BREE fare and I politely object. Then start the complaint process along with everyone else once I have the tickets.
I lean toward Option B).
Suggestions Please
I want to thank you for you (and Jaimito Cartero) for the time and effort it took to give us your background on this matter and advice
Based on GuyBetsy's post, it looks like it's best to say to Flo when she calls and can't deliver the BREE fare on all segments is:
A.) I understand ABCUS shows no availabiliiy. Would you please contact Northwest HQ. and ask for a wavier and get back with me, or
B) Agree to ticketing in a lower fare class and ask her to note in my record that, "I wanted the fare ticketed as I booked the reservation as a BREE fare and I politely object. Then start the complaint process along with everyone else once I have the tickets.
I lean toward Option B).
Suggestions Please
Oct 15, 2006, 11:15 am
#65
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Ticketed in N on AZ!
I spoke with Apple last night and was "reticketed" in N class on AZ for my flight in April (3 pax). As much as I'd love to push a bit harder and hope for a B fare, I'm totally relieved that this was even ticketed for me -- I had a booking and they had charged my card, but never had ticket numbers issued, so the fact that they're even letting me get in on this when they're not really obligated to is great, IMO. I'm off to Seoul tonight, so I'm just glad this is wrapped up and in the bag for me before I'm gone and incommunicado for a week. For me I really look at it as being happy with 100% EQMs YYZ-MXP-OTP RT instead of 150% of nothing since they're not obligated to honor a ticket they never issued me..
Hopefully, you'll all land the B fare in the end! Best of luck to everyone!
peace,
~Ben~
Hopefully, you'll all land the B fare in the end! Best of luck to everyone!
peace,
~Ben~
Oct 15, 2006, 11:21 am
#66
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Originally Posted by seoulmanjr
so the fact that they're even letting me get in on this when they're not really obligated to is great, IMO.
I consider this matter closed for myself, I really dont see much I can do now, but to be happy and accept the trip on AZ. Getting from Bucharest to other places in Europe is pocket change (just booked a side trip to Budapest on SkyEurope for $13 all in one way for my March trip booked on travelocity that is still NW B)
Oct 15, 2006, 11:39 am
#67
Join Date: Jun 2006
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My reservation was just reinstated by Flo from Zuji on Friday night....confirmed "B" class, only a change on the return as now on KLM BUH-AMS-YVR. I still don't see my reservation on Zuji's website, but I can now pull it up on NW. However, I only see the outbound flights in the itinerary. (There's nowhere to continue onto another page, and previously all 6 segments were available to view) Anyone have any ideas on why this might be? Or are they sending me on a one-way to Romania!? 
Oct 15, 2006, 1:38 pm
#69
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Dang! ^ now THAT is waaay cool !! (fahrpheggeneugen?)
QUOTE=owflyer: www.flyertalk.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6533381&postcount=56
Voila, with thanks to toppi5000 and Mrp Alert.
QUOTE=owflyer: www.flyertalk.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6533381&postcount=56
Voila, with thanks to toppi5000 and Mrp Alert.
Oct 15, 2006, 8:20 pm
#70
Join Date: Sep 2004
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Flo called this afternoon, she must get up darn early considering I am 8 hrs off Singapore time! She has rebooked us in B class and e-ticketed us but changing our dates. We were very flexible with our dates, giving her a range of 6 days outbound and 14 days return.
I want to actually give her kudos. I thought I was getting the Zuji runaround "B class is not available on those dates" but when she checked to find dates it was available she prevailed! Quite impressive. From what I've read here, I think Zuji is really trying to help us all out.
Granted, I do not have my tickets at the moment so my fond feelings could change!
A
I want to actually give her kudos. I thought I was getting the Zuji runaround "B class is not available on those dates" but when she checked to find dates it was available she prevailed! Quite impressive. From what I've read here, I think Zuji is really trying to help us all out.
Granted, I do not have my tickets at the moment so my fond feelings could change!
A
Oct 15, 2006, 11:43 pm
#71
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Go FLO!
Just got off the phone with Zuji, confirmed all B class, e-ticket and good to go. NWA.COM already reverted back to B class.
Flo was very professional and helpful, Zuji (TSG) did the right thing. ^
Flo was very professional and helpful, Zuji (TSG) did the right thing. ^
Oct 16, 2006, 1:08 am
#72
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: One of those "Fly-Over" states
Posts: 176
Zuji changes it's mind
Flo called me back and we booked the dates and route origionally reserved every leg was in B (one in C) and one in V. It showed in the NW web site.
I checked about 6 hrs later and found an incomplete set of legs on the NW web site in on a different date and in Q class.
I called Flo. She said managment would not allow it and she reviewed what she was able to do, the route and times are acceptable but it's not B class.
I agreed to the changes and will take it up with NW once I have the Tickets.
I don't care about WBC on one leg: I want the origional BREE fare under the origional rules.
I checked about 6 hrs later and found an incomplete set of legs on the NW web site in on a different date and in Q class.
I called Flo. She said managment would not allow it and she reviewed what she was able to do, the route and times are acceptable but it's not B class.
I agreed to the changes and will take it up with NW once I have the Tickets.
I don't care about WBC on one leg: I want the origional BREE fare under the origional rules.
Oct 16, 2006, 7:51 am
#73
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: ABJ
Posts: 755
m sure it will be A#1...!!
Originally Posted by AinA
Flo called this afternoon, she must get up darn early considering I am 8 hrs off Singapore time! She has rebooked us in B class and e-ticketed us but changing our dates. We were very flexible with our dates, giving her a range of 6 days outbound and 14 days return.
I want to actually give her kudos. I thought I was getting the Zuji runaround "B class is not available on those dates" but when she checked to find dates it was available she prevailed! Quite impressive. From what I've read here, I think Zuji is really trying to help us all out.
Granted, I do not have my tickets at the moment so my fond feelings could change!
A
I want to actually give her kudos. I thought I was getting the Zuji runaround "B class is not available on those dates" but when she checked to find dates it was available she prevailed! Quite impressive. From what I've read here, I think Zuji is really trying to help us all out.
Granted, I do not have my tickets at the moment so my fond feelings could change!
A
My fingers are crossed but i have faith in the Great Zuji...!!
I will keep my zujis crossed,hehehe...!!
Oct 16, 2006, 5:25 pm
#74
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I'm sorry for being 'slow'.
So if I bought Zuji tickets, and they sent me a confirmation, but I never got a e-Ticket and they subsequently cancelled it... Can I now get it ticketed?
So if I bought Zuji tickets, and they sent me a confirmation, but I never got a e-Ticket and they subsequently cancelled it... Can I now get it ticketed?
Oct 16, 2006, 5:56 pm
#75
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Originally Posted by YYCOllie
I'm sorry for being 'slow'.
So if I bought Zuji tickets, and they sent me a confirmation, but I never got a e-Ticket and they subsequently cancelled it... Can I now get it ticketed?
So if I bought Zuji tickets, and they sent me a confirmation, but I never got a e-Ticket and they subsequently cancelled it... Can I now get it ticketed?