DCA Curfew
Jul 5, 2017, 9:00 pm
#46
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Alexandria, Va - National Airport (DCA)
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Posts: 338
738 (AA 93 - DFW) took off today at 5:30am
73G (UA 551 - IAH) took off today at 5:56am (not on your list but same thing)
A319 (AA 469 - CLT) took off today at 5:57am
738 (UA 12282 - ORD) took off today at 6:07
A320 (DL 2080 - ATL) took off today at 6:08am
etc. etc. etc.
UA only operates a few 739's (ORD/DEN), one 753 (SFO) and no 752 out of DCA but they all could make the antiquated noise restrictions.
There are even more examples of late arrivals.
For the last time on this thread: There are no scheduled operational nighttime restrictions at DCA in 2017. Period!
under regular conditions, currently the largest plane accepted at DCA is a 75x.
Under special conditions other planes are sometimes authorized; I think it was last year a 787 landed (but maybe it was 2015) but that was empty. The special conditions being that planes are as empty as possible, at least when they attempt to leave DCA....
In the distant past I believe a DC10 made an emergency landing and somewhere I have seen a photo of SAM 26000 on the runway.
Under special conditions other planes are sometimes authorized; I think it was last year a 787 landed (but maybe it was 2015) but that was empty. The special conditions being that planes are as empty as possible, at least when they attempt to leave DCA....
In the distant past I believe a DC10 made an emergency landing and somewhere I have seen a photo of SAM 26000 on the runway.
A UA DC-10 diverted to DCA many years ago due to thunderstorms.
More recently, we've had the 787 land at DCA which I watched take off. Of course not scheduled service but still cool!
Last edited by flyer703; Jul 6, 2017 at 5:40 am Reason: formatting
Jul 6, 2017, 8:55 am
#47
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 40
There are indeed nighttime noise-related operating restrictions. They apply to a set of aircraft and/or their operating circumstances (e.g. weight) for takeoffs and arrivals between 2200 and 0700.
The airlines usually schedule around those restrictions, but the restrictions absolutely exist. They're codified in federal law (thanks to IAD and DCA's special status as airports built by the Federal Government and once operated directly by the FAA).
So, the restriction is there. It exists. It's codified in law. And it is occasionally violated, and the airlines are fined accordingly.
In 2015, MWAA issued 36 fines (page 20): http://www.flyreagan.com/sites/defau...port_final.pdf
In 2014, there were five fines issued to airlines for violating the rule:
http://www.flyreagan.com/sites/defau...ise_report.pdf
It gives a good sense of why they issue fines. It's usually a combination of a late-arriving aircraft of a certain type, or a type that might be otherwise fine if it weren't operating at a given weight.
Jan. 21, 10:01 p.m. – Delta Air Lines Flight 1739, an MD-80 aircraft. The airline was issued a letter of warning for a non-compliant aircraft arriving three minutes past the deadline.
May 15, 10:42 p.m. – Delta Air Lines Flight 1939, an MD-80 aircraft. The airline was issued a letter of warning for a non-compliant aircraft arriving past the deadline; as unforeseen weather delay was a major factor in the late arrival.
Aug. 8, 10:02 p.m. – Delta Air Lines Flight 1739, an MD-80 aircraft. The airline was fined $5,000 for a non-compliant aircraft arriving after the deadline.
Dec. 20, 12:39 a.m. – United Airlines Flight 1541, a Boeing 737-800 aircraft. The airline was issued a fine for $2,500 for being over the Nighttime Noise Rule’s weight limit for this aircraft.
Dec. 24, 10:42 p.m. – Delta Air Lines Flight 2360, a Boeing 737-800 aircraft. The airline was issued a $5,000 fine for being over the Nighttime Noise Rule’s weight limit for this aircraft.
May 15, 10:42 p.m. – Delta Air Lines Flight 1939, an MD-80 aircraft. The airline was issued a letter of warning for a non-compliant aircraft arriving past the deadline; as unforeseen weather delay was a major factor in the late arrival.
Aug. 8, 10:02 p.m. – Delta Air Lines Flight 1739, an MD-80 aircraft. The airline was fined $5,000 for a non-compliant aircraft arriving after the deadline.
Dec. 20, 12:39 a.m. – United Airlines Flight 1541, a Boeing 737-800 aircraft. The airline was issued a fine for $2,500 for being over the Nighttime Noise Rule’s weight limit for this aircraft.
Dec. 24, 10:42 p.m. – Delta Air Lines Flight 2360, a Boeing 737-800 aircraft. The airline was issued a $5,000 fine for being over the Nighttime Noise Rule’s weight limit for this aircraft.
The extensive list the rule is based on is available here:
https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/...%20Chg%201.pdf
It's got just about every type of aircraft, with estimated noise levels for given weights, flaps, engines, etc.
If a flight is using a) an aircraft that meets those criteria for a takeoff louder than 72 dbA or a landing louder than 85 dbA, and b) takes off or lands after 2200, then they issue the fine.
Jul 7, 2017, 5:16 am
#48
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: BNA
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Posts: 8,185
The list only included aircraft that UAL operates. Other aircraft, such as AA's and DL's MD80/90 series, may also have restrictions.
May 24, 2022, 1:36 pm
#50
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: WAS
Programs: enjoyed being warm spit for a few years on CO/UA but now nothing :(
Posts: 2,507
Based on the wording of the violation notices above it seems the law allows the regulator/airport operator to use some discretion when determining whether a fine is to be imposed. It seems reasonable that weather delays are probably one of the criteria to be taken into consideration when making a determination.
this page has some info about the rule: flyreagan.com - DCA Reagan National - Nighttime Noise Rule
and here is some of the statutory authority: 49 USC Ch. 475: NOISE (house.gov)
neither of which seem to directly answer your question.
this page has some info about the rule: flyreagan.com - DCA Reagan National - Nighttime Noise Rule
and here is some of the statutory authority: 49 USC Ch. 475: NOISE (house.gov)
neither of which seem to directly answer your question.