BillMorrow

For me, the choice was always between Marriott and Hilton. Until 18 months ago, I traveled enough to qualify for top tier in both. That travel ended and I had to choose one program. Initially, I went with Hilton because my wife and I have a mutual account. Recently, I decided to switch back to Marriott for a variety of reasons.

Unless Hilton devalues its program for next year(I doubt with the passing of the rolling year qualification for elites), these changes tip me back to Hilton. I'm sure others will parse this in many more accurate ways, but this is a rough calculation of $ spend to get an award at one of the better properties (Cat 6 for Hilton and Cat 7 for Marriott).

For Marriott, a five night stay at a Category 7 now costs 140,000 points or 28,000 points per night. A platinum will now accrue a base of 20 points per dollar spent at a Marriott property(using the MR CC). This means a spend of $1400 for a free night at a Category 7 Property.

For Hilton, a six night stay an elite at a Category 6 costs 175,000 points or 29,166 points per night. A diamond accrues a base of 25 points per dollar spent with Hilton(using HH CC and no double dip). This is a spend of $1167 for a free night at a Category 6 property.

This means that it takes a 20% higher spend at Marriott for a night at better property. These calculations don't include the very top properties at either chain (Category 8 for MR or and the WA group for HH), but I think this is an accurate reflection of what most of us are looking at in terms of actual use.

One further note. Many, many people take vacations seven days at a time. This change to where the 'sweet spot' for awards is a five day stay means either getting five nights free and paying for two for a weeks vacation or obtain sub-par value by using points for the entire seven night stay.

I, also, would be interested in hearing about the costs of awards at MVCI. My stay at 47 Park St is undoubtably my all time best use of points.

GrizShel

When these enhancements (and in certain respects, they are truly that, some folks will benefit significantly from the new structure) were first floated around, it would have been nice if the tradeoff in point devaluations were also floated around so we could have made informed judgments.

I still say that if Marriott could at least reduce the increase in point requirements for 7-night hotel + airline mile packages or at least make them available for 5-night stays, then, imo, there would be no reason for most of us to move our loyalty (unless we already have other reasons for doing so). For high point accumulators that predominantly book these types of packages, this hits pretty hard.

Question for Marriott Concierge:
If I book a hotel+air package under the current system for late next year (2009), what happens if I have to change plans - will I get hit with a ca. 90,000 point bill to rebook a cat. 7-8 hotel, or well I be able to keep what I have, just at a different property for different dates?

jfulcher

+1 - this is the shadiest part of the MR program.

I was trying to stay at the Columbia, SC Marriott on a football game weekend. They would sell me a room for 1 or 2 nights, and they would let me book an award room for 2 nights or more, but they wouldn't let me book an award stay for just one night (Plat desk even called hotel manager). So I had to book the two night award and then turn around and call the hotel front desk and get some regular worker to change my reservation to one night. Worked like a charm.

I shouldn't have had to do that though. If they are willing to sell a room they should be willing to use points for the room. PERIOD. This is the poor man's starwood program. You can't say no blackout dates and then have blackout dates (even if they are limited). If they can sell a revenue room I should have some way to be able to book one with points.

They definitely spun this as improvements for us, but it's nothing but a devaluation!

Yet another reason most of my business goes to starwood.

KevinInRI

Even with the double dip, Hilton Diamond members will earn 20 points per dollar (using the Hilton CC) - same as Marriott Platinum in 2009. For those of us who usually use Marriott points for one or two night stays in Cat 7 hotels in NYC and London which will now become Cat 8, the amount of points needed for redemption will be the same between Hilton and Marriott (40,000 points per night). But with Hilton, your Diamond arrival gift is 1,000 points at Hilton and Doubletree hotels, and 750 at HGI, as opposed to 500 with Marriott and Renaissance and 200 with Courtyard. On top of that, you will earn 500 airline miles per stay.

So if you do the math... consider 2 business travelers who both take 40 two-night business trips per year, one Diamond staying at Hiltons (half full service Hiltons, half HGI's), and the other Platinum staying at Marriotts (half full service, half Courtyards), paying with Hilton and Marriott CC's respectively. If you figure an average room rate of $150 per night, and each traveler takes the extra points instead of the arrival gift, the Hilton traveler will receive 155,000 Hilton points, and 20,000 airline miles. The Marriott traveler will receive 134,000 Marriott points and no airline miles.

Can you say... status match?

bpauker

This is absolutely absurd. After hitting 125 nights this year a few weeks back, I decided to switch the rest of my spend for the year to Starwood. I'm currently doing 3 nights/week in NYC at $389/night. I had planned to switch back to Marriott at the beginning of the year, but these "enhancements" will not induce me to switch back. Sheraton can enjoy my $4600/month spend instead. All Marriott has done here is pi$$ off the customers who spend the most money.

Luckily I already have a few 7 night stays booked at category 6 and 7 properties (including JW Capri) at the current rate and not the obscene and usurious "enhanced" rates.

deant

I have to agree with the many other posters here that this "enhancement" is a major devaluation of our points. In my mind the Marriott Concierge has lost a lot of credibility in his original statements. His excitement about this "enhancement" and Marriott's "goal to make this program upgrade as simple and rewarding as possible." is trying to put lipstick on a pig (no political comment intended).

I think most people could understand the creation of a Cat. 8 and having some hotels change categories. People would not like it but would understand. However, hitting us with the Cat. 8 PLUS elimination of the sliding scale for increased nights PLUS increasing the number of points even with the 5th night free and calling it an enhancement is ridiculous.

beachfan

I'm only a gold, but that's still 50 nights a year. So for me, huge minus. And it makes the Marriott Visa sort of worthless when compared with Starwood Amex; I have to charge 3 times as much to get a comparable room.

Happy I just came back from the Renaissance Chancery Court, my favorite in the Marriott family!

Jumpgate

Wow - I'm glad I abandoned MR last year and stuck with SPG.

This is a serious devaluation! What adds insult to injury is that it was painted as an enhancement! How very US Airways-esque!

At least SPG is honest ... When they bumped a lot of hotels up a category, and even created a new higher level of hotel and therefore devalued points, Starwood Lurker stated it in those words. He even encouraged people to book before the changes went into effect.

MikeBU

so much drama on here...

flyerjay

Thanks for the 'enhancement'. Think of my departure as an 'enhancement' to the program as well - you will have slightly more availability at your properties.

crazyhorse

If you are a Gold, there is really no point in sticking around. Redeem your points for what you can. At 50 nights/year, SPG or Hyatt is definitely a better bet and most of their properties are nicer too compared with the same old boring look at Marriott. I stayed with MR for 4 years as a Plat because the best bang I was getting was to spend 7 nights at top hotels for 130-150K.

welookgood.com

Also no AA bonus anymore?

imverge

Exactly ^

From day 1 Marriott Concierge has been nothing but a puppet for Marriott and a big disappointment compared to Starwood Lurker, who calls a spade a spade.

Announcing these changes as "enhancements" is insulting to the intelligence of your members.

TOMSURFER

I am a Plat Prem with access to over 3 million points, I think that selling this as an enhancement is an insult to our intelligence.

There are 24 cat 7's now and 14 of these are becoming cat 8's.

We can expect a rolling upgrade of hotels up the categories as well, so the devaluation will be on 2 fronts - category inflation through all categories, as well as the inflation in points required for stays.

My main gripe is the massive inflation in travel packages points.

If Marriott is listening they should consider how this looks to long term stayers who have accumulated a lot of points - this is a massive devaluation. The reduction in liability in Marriott's year end accounts will be exactly matched by the reduction in value to their long staying customers.

Marriott are not likely to change what they have announced, but if I can make a suggestion that would at least give us a bit more choice.

Create a travel package for 5 nights plus miles on a 1to1 basis. This would (based on 120K miles) have a travel package cost of 220K (cat 1-5) 240K (cat 6) 260K (cat 7) and 280K (cat 8).

Tom

allset2travel

These are called ENHANCEMENTS?
After being hit this year with point inflation (hotel cat inflation), now this. After all, 2009 will be a slow year for travel due to worldwide econ slowdown, and MR thinks it can suck it to its best customers with these "enhancements". As a PlatLife, I am bringing some of my biz elsewhere. Not much incentive to accumulate points, is there?
MR hits us on redemption as many prior posts had pointed out. The elevation of hotels in major capital cities as Cat 8 is uncalled for. Just one more way to kick MR's loyal customers while they are down.
The 50% bonus (vs 30%) sounds good but not enough to offset the big hit when you redeem award stays.
I will close with 2 thumbs down