How dare you be so pragmatic! ;) And since you started this trend....

While I know this thread has been ripe with emotional posts, I am going to go out on a limb here and attempt to interject a bit of rationalism. Before I do, I wish to say that I also find the changes disappointing, but not unexpected. I actually was expecting similar changes to the point redemption levels sometime last year. As a result over the past couple years I have been redeeming more points. Hotel nightly rates have gone from sub $100 to $200+ over the past 7 years, and nightly rates at resorts have gone from low $100s to $500+ during the same period so it only makes sense that award redemption levels increase.

Instead of comparing the new redemption levels to previous redemption levels, I thought it would be good to compare the new redemption levels to that of the other top two programs.

The following assumes top tier elite status in each program, with annual spending of $20000 top earning hotels (those earning 10 pt/$). The figures below do not take into account extra point earning promotions (Megabonus, SPG Double Starpoints, etc) and arrival gifts bonus points Marriott (500), Hilton (1000), etc.

Marriott Plat – 10 pts/$, 50% bonus points, and 5 points/$ for using Marriott Premier Visa for a total of 20 pts per dollar spent yielding 400,000 points for the $20000 annual spend or a point cost of 5¢/Pt. Using a 5th night free award at a category 7 property costs 140000 points for 5 nights which translates to 28000 points per night or per night dollar cost of $1400.

SPG Plat – 2 pts/$, 50% bonus points, and 2 points/$ for using SPG AMEX for a total of 5 pts per dollar spent yielding 100,000 points for the $20000 annual spend or a point cost of 20¢/Pt. Using a 5th night free award at a category 6 property costs 10000 points for a 5 night stay during peak season which translates to 20000 points per night or per night dollar cost of $4000. For non-peak 5th night free award at category 6 it is 80000 points which translates to 16000 points per night or per night dollar cost of $3200. Using a 5th night free award at a category 5 property costs 64000 points for a 5 night stay during peak season which translates to 12800 points per night or per night dollar cost of $2560. For non-peak 5th night free award at category 5 it is 48000 points which translates to 9600 points per night or per night dollar cost of $1920. While I love the Westin and St. Regis brands, and stay there occasionally, the SPG redemption earn/burn ratios are horrible in comparison to Marriott or Hilton IMO.

Hilton Diamond – 10 pts/$, 50% bonus points, 5 pts/$ for double dip hotel points and 5 points/$ for using Hilton HHonors AMEX for a total of 25 pts per dollar spent yielding 500,000 points for the $20000 annual spend or a point cost of 4¢/Pt. Using a 6 night GLONP2 award at a category 6 property costs 175000 points for 6 nights which translates to 29167 points per night or per night dollar cost of $1166.67. From a earn and burn perspective HHonors is a bit better than Marriott, but only by a small margin. My personal experience with Hilton is that the hotels where have stayed, once every few years, have been a bit worn. I am staying at a Hilton again in Cairns this December so we will see what that yields.

As Marriott Platinum with 3+ million LT points I intend on continuing at Marriott, and will burn my final points on 2 weeks at Vail, help my boss with points toward his 10 days at Vail, and get my certificate for my 7 nights in Paris next summer. I should have less than 50K points left. I am about a year away from LT Gold and about 3-4 years from LT Plat (need more stays for both), so I intend on staying with Marriott as the difference in earn/burn between Marriott and Hilton is not compelling enough for me to switch. FWIW, I don’t use points for anything less than the best ROI (helping with boss’s reward being the exception) so for those that might use points for 2-3 night stays, your earn and burn ratio might be different. So my strategy going forward is to do 5, 10, 15, 20 nights award stays instead of 7, 14, and 21 night stays of the past. I just cashed out a 7 night travel package about a week before this announcement which puts me within 20000 miles of AA LT Plat so I have no need for TP in the future since the only reason I was doing it was to hasten reaching AA LT Plat.

Now with all that said, I still don’t like the idea of having to cash out more points than I did in the past for award stays, but that’s life. No doubt it will happen again in another 7-15 years at all of the Hotel and Airline programs so start preparing yourself.

For those of your wishing to change programs, hopefully this gives you some insight as to what is offered by the other programs.

If anyone wants to add an analysis of Hyatt or Priority Awards feel free to do so. I did not, as they are not hotels I consider when booking a stay. Hyatt has too few hotels and IC is the only Priority rewards brand I would consider, so I don’t because they are too few and far between. Actually that is one of the problems with SPG with 860 hotels compared to Hilton and Marriott who have 2800-3000 each.

If anyone sees mistakes in the figures, please let me know so I can make corrections.

Thanks - Bob

Wow! That was one heck of a fantastic analysis. Thanks aaupgrade!

I'm with you as far as running away from Marriott is concerned. However, going forward I will start "distributing the wealth" to where I can get the most return instead of just staying at Marriott as I was doing for past 3 years. Hyatt is currently running the FFN promo and I guess I'll stay with them 1 night a week to mop up some of those nights for any weekend stays I may have in Jan and Feb. After that, its the hotel thats running any bonus promo that gets to swipe my credit card.

I gotta admit, the 10% off gift cards do skew the balance towards Marriott and cash in the pocket (especially in these times) rules.

aaupgrade a very good analysis of the programs-EXCEPT that there are intangibles which diffrenttiates SPG from MR that do not show up on paper very well.
In real life however,and my experience is echoed by others who actually have top tier in the these programs,SPG benefits far outweigh those of MR when it comes to redemption.
There should be no doubt that a most tier Starwood properties are head and shoulders above most top tier Marriott properies.
Also you leave out promotions-and I understand why.It is really hard to actaulize the benefits of the promos SPG runs.In real life I make more SPG points via the promos than I do on real spend.But I am probably an exception in this case.
So while I do appriciate your breakdown-it is not reflective of my real world experience.

I agree.

Two benefits with being PLT w/SPG I value are the suite upgrade benefit. I am 100% this year on getting a suite w/SPG with MR it's 10% and that's only because I am a frequent guest at a few properties. The other is the 4pm late check out. I have to beg Marriott to get a 1 or even 2pm late check out.

I have gotten 3PM late check-out at most MRs. Never had a 4PM (did not recall needed one). With SPG, 2 PM is all they would allow me to have.

Your analysis is useless if you don't take into account the continuous promotions that various programs offer.

On average I have earned somewhere between 3K to 4K SPG points per night at SPG properties due to Platinum Amenity, 500 CCC bonuses, property specific promos, and quarterly bonuses.

Unfortunately Marriott doesn't even come to close when comparing to their "Megabonus" that typically yields somewhere between 1K to 2K extra points per night. Also compared to SPG their international properties are rather $hitty.

Although I am happy that there seems to be such a captive Marriott audience that doesn't really seems to grasp that the program on the whole is probably the least rewarding of the major five.

so far my money is with aaupgrade. None of this is a Marriott conspiracy - they are changing the program with advance notice - don't like it go some place else. all the programs have good and bad points, everyone has to choose based on their travel.. what works for international will not work for domestic. what to only redeem on international rewards? I dont know maybe SPG is better. along the way you DO have to stay in a hotel, and for that I think that Marriot offers a very consistant product

What does it mean to me - I will be taking 5 night reward stays instead of 7 which i have been doing anyway for the last few years.

My guess is that the overwhelming majority of MR members are not overwhelmed with the changes. Points are not fine wines that are laid into a cellar for some future use (I have 1 mio points and now they are useless!! OMG!!!!) You know that the points will become less valuable in time - 2-3 years on average. Use them while you can

All MR members (and certainly everyone on this board) should be required to attest to this statement.

Are you PLT with SPG? That would make a difference.

Totally agree with this. Points don't earn interest so better use them. I always try to redeem earned points in a years time.

As much as PO'd at MR for their deception and for the way that they changed cats and the way the increases actually came into play...

I find this statement should be applied for all chains.. not of the big 4 major chains has not done a deval in the past couple years..

+1 with tfred and aaupgrade.

I didn't buy a timeshare on the basis of some verbal promise of future points reward. I could care the least about suite upgrades. I don't have millions of points - I spend them each year.

I don't travel internationally, and (:() spend a great deal of time in secondary markets. In those markets, Marriott properties are the most consistent with the most choices. Hands down.

I am in a hotel 100+ nights to GET my points. I spend 7 to 14 nights to hotel to redeem them. The locations/service/customer care in the FORMER is as important as the latter - and my family agrees.

Although I try to maximize points, I am not consumed by it.

I don't feel oppressed, I am not going to sue. I am not "a captive audience who is unable to grasp that the program is the least rewarding of the big 5."

It is Marriott's program. They can run it as they choose.

If it doesn't work for you, it is understandable that you want to go elsewhere - but stop the arrogant assumption that those of us who do not follow are truly stupid or blindly loyal.

Redeeming Points
 

Hi--
I don't post here too often, but spend a lot of time "lurking". I have learned a lot for you folks, so thanks. I don't travel a heck of a lot, but over 5 or 6 years (maybe longer), I had accumulated about 550,000 Marriott Rewards Points. I had planned on converting these points in 2010 to multiple travel packages (2 270,000 point travel packages--w/ 7 nights in cat. 7 and 120K miles) so our family of four could take a trip to Paris as a graduation trip for when my kids got done with highschool in the summer of 2010). When I learned about this new program "enhancement" it was pretty clear to me that if I wanted to be able to do this trip, I would need to take it under the current points strucuture, as I would not be able to "afford" it with the way the points are to be devalued. There is no way I will travel enough to earn enough additional points between now and then to get the necessay extra points to make the trip in 2010. Ok--so that's fine--they changed the rules (as I am sure they are legally entilted to do), tbut atleast hey gave me enough notice to atleast try and use my points how I wanted to, albeit a year earlier than I wanted. I can live with that.

When I did the redemption, I ended up getting 4 tickets on AA using miles, and 2 rooms at the Renaissance Paris Hotel Le Parc Trocadero for 7 nights for dates that were acceptable to us. And to get this hotel, I had to move my dates around quite a bit to get a room under the standard award. Based on what I read here, I first tried to get a reservation at the Renaissance Paris Vendome Hotel but there were no standard awards available--the Paris Marriott Hotel Champs-Elysees was also unavailable for a standard award. A couple of thoughts--I thought by planning out almost 9 months that there would a lot more room availability--I was really suprrised how limitted it was under the standard award. I figured the airline awards would be the constraining factor--that turned out to be a non-issue--plenty of availability. Basically, under the current program, they seem to ration awards by limitting rooms. Under the new program, as I understand it, they will make more rooms available, but basically make them more expensive, so they are rationing them by cost/points. So I would think that for those of you folks who have lots of points but less flexibility, the new program would be a net positive. For people like me who have more flexibility and less points, the program change is a net negative.

One other thing I wondered--I noticed that all of these Paris hotels offered standard awards for "upgraded rooms"---e.g. you could redeem a standard award but also had to pay cash each night because the room they were making available was a "nicer" room. I wonder, when Marriott changes the program and gets rid of the stay anytime awards, if they are going to make sufficient rooms avaialable under the new award structure where you do not have to pay an upgrade fee. In other words, will you be able to get a room anytime you want, but only the "nicer" rooms will be available, and hence you will have to pay with points and money.

Need advice on what to do with 1.1 million miles?
 

I've just now learned of this change and am wondering what I should do?

I'm Gold with 1.1 million miles. I wasn't planning to cash them in but it seems as though this is the right time. In the past I've only cashed in travel packages (7 nights + air miles).

If I understand correctly, I can request travel packages up to 1/15 on the old point structure, but does it mean that I also must have reservations at least for the hotel already made (also on the old structure)?

welcome stephenandrew
 

I am pretty much in the same boat as you stephenandrew.I was saving my MR points for a grand spluge for my 50th B'day in 2010.A grand tour of three European cities.I could never afford to stay 21 days in 4-5 star hotels for this trip and have been saving my MR points for a portion of this.

Now,with the "enhancement"of the program I find I am faced with either dumping my miles into redemptions I really do not want,or keeping them in a rotting program and being repaid for my loyaty with a 30-40% reduction of their value.

And to be lied to by Marriott at the same time they are robbing me is just infuriating.

Also-regardless of how they might try and spin it-Marriott Rewards is allowing certain properties blackout dates.So there is absolutely no guarantee that you will not face the same hurdles with the "enhanced'program.