I'd still like to hear how Marriott timeshare owners are affected. That way I can always remind myself never to fall for it. Also, when I do one of the preview packages and have to endure the sales pitch, I can have some very pointed arguments to make against their pitch. I love it when they send the closer out to "bribe" me with however many hundred thousand points and I still say no with a smile.

my guess is that Marriott might make a side deal with TS owners witout having to say "sorry". That being said, they got what they bought and paid for

i have been on the TS pitches. Over the two hours anybody can hear what they want to hear. Not on a piece of paper ?- SOL

I agree that the timeshare stories give anyone plenty of ammo to say no the next time you sit through a presentation. At the end of the 90 minutes, refer to the point adjustments and just say, "No." - It doesn't get much easier.

As for the statistics posted by Marriott Concierge, these started me thinking about whether or not Marriott Executives truly understood their program enhancement research - or did they react to poorly labeled and misinterpreted data?

Marriott Concierge - Could you please take a look at this spreadsheet? I'm interested in filling in as much accurate information as possible (Yellow rows are the variables I need to Adjust). I don't know what level of access to data you have, but I think that it would be interesting and perhaps revealing to complete. It opens up a set of facts that both elite members and Marriott management could examine to better understand the business end of the decision. Maybe management was dead on - maybe they missed a few facts. Of course this sheet won't capture every variable, but if filled in accurately, it lends itself to helping elite members see the reasoning behind Marriott's decisions - and tries to do so in a way that does not twist the numbers (like the stay redemptions vs. nights redeemed stats). Anyway, you asked us to keep the comments coming... If you respond here or email me, I'll update the sheet to mirror your numbers.

http://sites.google.com/site/makemar...venue-Analysis

Before I get flamed - I do recognize that this is a simplistic approach - but it would be interesting to see the results. Maybe the casual traveler is a better target for Marriott.

Thanks for your time.

Marriott Concierge
 

Fewer than 3% of hotel redemptions were for seven night stays.

If this statement by Marriott is true, then why would you change these 7 night stay packages so much. It would make sense that the people that take advantage of these packages are Marriott's best customers. I would think you would leave these alone as a way to reward those customers. It is not a large percentage of the hotel redemptions, so the impact to Marriott should not be that great.
My recommendation would be to leave the seven night packages the same for the timeshare owners and then make the five night package available to everyone else. It would definitely make things easier for the timeshare salesman that have used this as a main selling point for buying a timeshare directly from Marriott.

Very well said. If you notice the gripe from the last 30 pages, then you will notice that people are most vocal abt the7 night devaluation. Ed French needs to go back to MBA school to understand that the top tier people get the most revenue and they are the ones who have more than 250K points in their accounts and if it was just 3% of the redemptions being done in that category, then they should have been left as is OR made even more attractive. I am just waiting for the 1st quarter to pass by, before which the management at Marriott will realize its folly.

So then how do account for nearly 80% of the posts voicing their displeasure over the changes to the 7 nights travel packages?

Good luck with that. SPG points are devalued almost annually, and they have never reimbursed their timeshare owners for the promises that weren't kept. In fact that is one of the reasons I cite when I tell the timeshare salespeople that I must decline their offer. :D

However I do sympathize as the timeshare sales pitch is fraudulent in that they never disclose that your points will be periodically depreciated.


No devaluation is welcome, but this isn't bad compared with what SPG has done over the last 2 years (not to mention UA's new award chart). Of course it hurts more for the high value awards. Marriott does not want to continue giving away rooms in the top cities that it could sell for $500. The timing is rather ironic, as business is expected to plummet over the next year due to the imploding economy.

Not to beat a dead horse, but the devaluation is actually much worse than stated in the previous post. Seven nights at at cat. 7 is actually a 60% reduction in point value. The part about devaluations actually being worse when you factor in the appearance of category 8 hotels is true.

Here's the full table that compares the old program grid to the new program grid with percent changes.

http://sites.google.com/site/makemar...on-spreadsheet

Are you sure you don't work for Starwood or Hilton.....

I'd imagine that the information that you're asking for in the spreadsheet is highly confidential and is in some respects the basis of Marriott's business and competitive advantage.

I've already been surprised that the Conceirge has been so generous with the facts in percentage terms - any such information could be used by competitors to work out how to target Marriott's customers.

I think what I'm saying is that you shouldn't expect any responses to that spreadsheet and although it is an interesting point in maths it just restates the obvious (losing a plat costs more than losing a casual user...probably). I also think that the spreadsheet is missing out on the key people who benefit from this change and sit somewhere between 'casual' and silver members (or perhaps are just silver members) - i.e. those people who might spend 1/2 weeks at a hotel on holiday each year, are pretty agnostic about which chain they stay at and so earn perhaps enough points for 1/2 nights per year in a hotel - and as such who benefit immensely from the change in reward patterns (i.e. theoretically they can use their stay anytime). If you look at my figures below there might be perhaps 20million such active members.

Having said that - if you spend a little bit more time with google you should be able to populate many areas of the spreadsheet yourself, for example;

Total number of elites, 3.5m source
Total number of MR members, 28m source
Useful thoughts on traveller spend source

I'm sure there is much more out there - happy hunting.

I'm thinking that Marriott's best customers all frequent FT! And they are the ones with several hundred thousand points in their accounts and who are most likely to take advantage of the 7 night stays.

Certainly on the AC forum, there is a disproportianate number of Elites and Super Elites, vs the population at large.

You want to poll your best customers, go to FT!

OK since no one has borught up what I see as obvious questions, I'll jump on this band wagon.

What percentage of stays are for more than 7 nights?

What percentage of less than 7 night stays were because the hotel didn't have 7 night availability?

BTW, please answer the question. Please do not answer the question with "that is why we are doing away with blackout dates" as that was not my question. I am asking about the statistics you presented not the new program, so please answer the question.

How are Euro/UK/Florida/Hawaii Hopper stays accounted for in your statistics? Even though we are using a 7 night award instrument, my guess is the award nights are based on the Hotel Reservations not the type of award instrument used. Please verify.

FWIW, here is my current sampling: This year I did 2 award stays, 21 nights at Vail Marriott, and 4 nights at Champs-Elysees (because 7 nights were not available) and 3 nights at London Chancery Court - used a Euro Hopper. Next year I am doing 14 nights at Vail Marriott, my boss is doing 10 nights at Vail Marriott, and I am doing 7 nights at Champ-Elysees.

The point of my post is twofold.

1) To point out the spin and fallacy of your, or those who provide you (Ed French) those, statistics and how anyone can use statistics to prove/support ones point/position.

2) To point out to those posting here the pointlessness of dwelling on these statistics (I'm also talking to myself here ;) ), because while I pointed out a few of the obvious holes in Marriott's statistics, I am sure there are plenty of other holes that could support any position one chooses.

The bottom line is the statistics are BS and meaningless, and Marriott has made up its mind that these changes are happening and there is little that we can do about it. Yes, we can complain and get emotional, but in the end these changes will stand. The best thing we can do is analyze the info, and then make decisions that work the best for each of us.

I have read part of this long thread, skimmed most of it.

Maybe a naive question: for someone with <100k points who wants to book a night or two every now and then, how is this not a good thing? Standard awards seem to never be available, and these new rates are much less than the Stay Anytime awards. Plus, they promise no blackout dates.

What's the catch for someone like me? Is it inventory/definitions of standard rooms? Something else I am missing?

For someone that uses Stay Anytime awards, yes this would be a good change. However, many of us who post on FT "just say No" to Stay Anytime awards.

It's because we're Flyertalkers. :)

Most of us here know and love the Travel Packages. That's the primary edge that Marriott has on its competition. I'm AA Lifetime Gold mainly because of Marriott. In years when I know we have to do a bunch of domestic U.S. trips, I have a WN Companion Pass because of Marriott.

The minute any of us sniffs a program change, we immediately go look at 087 and 091. They could change all sorts of small awards or category-creep every Fairfield Inn in the world to Cat 5 and I'd never notice. But the Travel Packages...adjust those, and you get a 12-page thread. :D

I look at my personal devlauation here as somewhere in the 7 percent (no category creep) or 16 percent (1 category creep) range. That's looking at Category 6 and 7 and factoring in the new Plat bonus.

If the devaluation is *actually* offset by better access to award rooms, it's a fair trade. That's the part we'll have to wait and see on.

I agree that Stay Anytime awards are a poor value, but I often find that availability on standard awards are very limited. So, with these changes (including no blackout), shouldn't one expect that the availability of award rooms at the new rates should be much better than the availability on the old standard rates... or not?