PTravel

Very interesting responses.

I am universally condemned by, only, parents, all of whom have children who are perfect little angels who "know how to behave." All these children never disturb anyone -- it's only Other People's Children.

Foodguy says, "I will hold a casual meeting at best in a c-lounge (particularly during the foodservice times in the morning and evening)." Of course, this is exactly what I did, but everyone, including Foodguy, decided I was wrong to have my meeting when and where I did because I'm "child bashing" when I object to shrieking toddlers (not "children playing," heffa) in the confined space of a Concierge Lounge which, despite psychephylax' contention, is designed, furnished and structured to appeal to adult business travelers, and is NOT furnished with high-chairs, brightly colored plastic furniture, toys and the other detritus that generally demarcates a "family friendly" location.

An awful lot of posters straining mightily to justify the actions of one set of filthy, ill-mannered and inconsiderate parents who disturbed some 15 other people. It would seem I struck a nerve. I wonder why?

slowly

May I take a guess - they were designed to be a place to sleep / eat away from home for paying guests? Which includes business people, families, etc?

You will get abundance of apologetic "sorrys" from Marriott, maybe some bonus points; if that is what you wanted, OK. If you wanted a quiet conversation, either ask the attendant to tone down other guest or rent a room entirely for yourself.

You being the only witness nobody here can tell if the noise from the toddler was really over the top (in which case attendant would have helped) or at acceptable levels (children deserve a bit more tolerance than adults, that's the price you pay for annoying others when you were a child and the noise your children make).

P.S. I have no children if that was your next argument.

PTravel

And now you understand why I complained. I was the only one in this thread who was there. And what I witnessed was over-the-top, ice-pick-through-the-brain shrieking.

I haven't said that children don't belong in the CL. I said that this kind of behavior was completely inappropriate for the CL.

The attendant should have done something. She didn't. Hence my complaint.

And, no, I don't want points. I want Marriott to realize that their failure to maintain an appropriate atmosphere in the CL can effect their business.

psychephylax

I have yet to find shrieking children to be the norm at any hotel.
Does it happen? Yes.
Will it happen in the future? Yes.
Does it bother me? Yes.
Do I stoop to the level of the child and complain about it to everyone? No.

Unless you start your own country, buy your own private island or set up an "adults only" hotel, you're out of luck on your argument. You went to a public place expecting it to meet your standards and offer you a quiet work environment. Why not conduct business in a more private place where you make the rules.

The C-Lounge is also NOT intended to be your personal meeting room that you can use on a whim. That's why Marriott will gladly rent out a meeting room/suite to you for conducting business. I've actually seen a meeting room attached to the C-Lounge that could be booked at the Sydney Harbor Marriott.


And if your next argument will be that I have or like children, you're both on wrong accounts.

Fripp

PTravel,

You have explained yourself well. Unfortunately, you choose not to listen to other responses.

You see only your side of the incident. Other posters are explaining that there are other sides as well, including the fact that Marriott offers the c-lounge to all gold and platinum members and their families.

Sometimes people will have the tv on too loud. Sometimes there will be 5-6 people from a company having a few drinks and being a little loud and obnoxious. Sometimes some kids will be in the lounge. At times, someone will be speaking on a cell phone and the entire lounge will hear them.

Sometimes, a lounge is not the best place to hold a meeting.

Marriott does a fine job in their lounges. Some are better than others. Overall, there is not a problem. It is unfortunate that the child was loud while you were there. The parents should have removed the child. I would bet Marriott has seen a lot worse in their lounges. This is not a huge incident. Move on.

GeoGirl

I don't have any children. I also haven't really seen people condemning you, but rather offering other viewpoints.

IMHO, the kind of behavior you mentioned was completely inappropriate for any public forum. It frustrates the heck out of me when ill-behaved children disturb me- I don't mind kids in general, you understand, just noisy and rude ones.

That said...they are kids and as such, are apt to want to play and have fun, even when it's not entirely appropriate. It's up to parents to provide the guidelines of what is and is not okay- and if the parents engage in kid-centered parenting rather than teaching the kids sound judgement about disturbing people who are trying to relax or conduct business, there's not much that you can do (unless you're the parents, LOL).

I would be reluctant to conduct a business meeting in any forum where I don't have control over the environment, unless it's a very casual meeting with no confidential information being revealed. I'd be curious how frequently you conduct business (especially confidential business) in this sort of environment and also how frequently it's disrupted.

GG

clarkef

Quite True.

I think the OPs difficulty in accepting the other positions is that his basic paradigm is that a C-Lounge is primarily for business travelers. The European hotels that I have been to would agree with the OP. I have been in the C-lounges of European Westins, Marriotts, and Hiltons and have yet to see one child or teenager.

However, in the US, that paradigm is different. C-Lounge guests regularly include a wide variety of folks including children, non-business travelers, vacationers, etc. Unlike our European counterparts, few people dress up for the C-Lounge. In fact, there are threads about people wearing bikines or pajamas in the lounge or even going barefoot.

Given this reality, plus the explicit prohibition in some lounges, it is no longer reasonable to believe that a lounge is primarily for the business traveler.

flyerwife

Any inappropriate behavior in the Concierge Lounge is disruptive to the other patrons, whether that be an unruly child, a loud guest on a cell phone, a group whose laughter carries through the room, or two doctors discussing their patients hysterectomy (and yes, I've experienced ALL of the above at Marriotts).

However, I've found that, in the Concierge Lounge, the attendants are usually very hesitant to say anything to the patrons on their own. Let's face it, everyone in there could be considered Marriott's best customers, both the offenders and those offended. I think it would have been unusual for the attendant to say anything to the parent unless someone had complained. The attendants are always very gracious and not looking for confrontation amongst their guests.

PTravel, apparently you did not indicate to the attendant that you were being disturbed. Apparently, no one else in the C Lounge did either. The attendant is not a babysitter and she is there for the comfort of the guest. Unless someone were to complain, I'd say it's highly unlikely that she would take it upon herself to berate a guest for their child's behavior. (And you can bet this isn't the first time they have seen an unruly child in the C Lounge.)

However, PTravel, it is clear you have no children. It's also very clear, from your many, many posts on this subject, that children bother you. Maybe you just seem to attract the unruly ones, for you have posted on this subject more than most. Maybe you just have a low tolerance for noise, or a low tolerance for distraction of any kind. Unfortunately, you will encounter children in a hotel, on a plane, in a restaurant from now until forever. It's probably in your best interest, for your own health, well-being and sanity, to find the coping skills that allow you to rise above distraction. Otherwise, the only one who suffers for it is you.

jerseyfinn

Just my opinion, & I post reluctantly. But I think that the main point has long since been made and I don't know where this thread is presently going. If it continues, I suggest that the title of this thread be ammended to include "childlike posters".

Time to move on, at least for me .

Barry

PTravel

Talking about "stooping to the level of a child," what do you call name calling?

I didn't "complain to everyone." I complained to Marriott, and posted here. Apparently, it was a good thing I did, because it would seem some parents who post here think allowing their children to shriek in the lounge, and using tables where people eat as an extension of the floor, is acceptable conduct.

It's not. I don't care what you think the CL is for. It is not for 1 set of paying guests to take over in such a way that no one else can use it.

We'll see if Marriott agrees with me.

PTravel

I'm not going to reveal details, including why we were meeting where we did and when we did. However, I will say that conducting this specific type of meeting in such a context occurs often and doesn't require absolute silence and privacy. It does require an environment that doesn't include, for example, boom boxes, small weapons target practice, NASCAR racing or kids shrieking at the top of their lungs. I didn't expect to find any of this in the CL.

Big Mo

You've premised your complaint on your opinion that the C-lounge is intended for quiet business meetings. Apparently, nobody agrees with you (although, despite your strawman arguments, most posters agree with your opinions about parents, noise, and filth). They have given specific reasons supporting their contrary opinions. If you really "don't care" about others' opinions, why did you create this thread and why do you continue to post in it?

Never mind. The answer is obvious.

baglady

I went back and re-read all the posts and I did not see any of us condoning this. Can you please advise the post(s) that did?

PTravel

Okay, I'll try to be clear:

I don't object to children being in the CL. I object to anyone who causes a significant disruption. That means I object to parents who let their toddler shriek.

I don't object to babies being the CL. I object to anyone who places filthy items that were on the floor on tables in the CL from which people eat. That means I object to parents who place a baby carrier that was on the floor on a table.

If there were business people yelling into cell phones, raucous sports fans, people dancing on the tables, etc., and the attendant did nothing, I would have complained. However, there weren't. There was a couple with a continuously shrieking toddler who placed a carrier on a table.

Do people get it yet?

I don't care who causes the disturbance or unsanitary condition. Whoever does it is rude and selfish, and Marriott is remiss in allowing it to continue.

psychephylax

You're the one who's not getting it.

There are something like 6.5 billion people on earth. No matter how much some of them annoy you, they just will. It's a fact of life. I can write a list of objections that will cover quite a few pages but that isn't going to change 99.99% of that 6.5 billion people....

Ironically, after looking at your profile, you're a lawyer. What do you want us to chime in with? You should take the family & Marriott to court?