jn in ca

I agree 100%. It is the classic effect of governments causing inflation: costs go up, but earning goes up too, so the real effect of the inflation is that it massively devalues pre existing savings. Exactly what is going to happen to our point balances.

I am no Marriott employee (as I think some of the cheerleaders are), but I did have over 100 nights in the Marriott system last year, so I think I am qualified to have an opinion, and I view this new chart as a massive devaluation, obviously. I chuckle at the commenters who claim this isn't a devaluation because we haven't seen which hotels are in which category yet. I've seen enough Marriott devaluations in the last 3 years to know what is coming. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice...

hockeyinsider

Except that's how it is presently. There is no transparent way in which categories are determined, but it certainly isn't based on brand nor cash price because there are presently lots of inferior properties that are category 8 or category 9 alongside the best Marriott, J.W. Marriott and Renaissance properties.

rylan

And it'll be yet another huge devaluation for those in the Marriott Vacationclub system, since they set the exchange rates for a timeshare week or destination points to marriott rewards points years ago and have not increased those... so its a horrible option to convert a timeshare week/points as you'd only be able to get a couple days at higher end hotel for your expensive timeshare week.

joshua362

hockeyinsider

This.

VisaW

You know, your profile says you're a Flyertalk evangelist, but I think you're a Marriott evangelist. When was the last time — literally ever — that in Marriott's annual property reclassification, less than 80% of the property adjustments were not a category increase? You are blind if you don't see what's coming. Mark my words.

Precisely this.

FlyinHawaiian320

You're splitting hairs. You call it inflation, the majority of us (and rightfully so) call it devaluation. A 40k-45k hotel going to 50k means one is now paying an extra 5-10k in pts a night. If you stay just 4 nights, that's an extra 20k-40k a vacation needed at minimum. This doesn't even take into consideration the peak times in '19 which could potentially be in play for ~half a calendar year (as another poster pointed out in another thread).

I'd bet anything Marriott would counter this by saying members are now earning more points - which is technically true if you are PP - an increase of 2.5 pts per $ (17.5 vs 15) plus if you have one of the credit cards you get 6 pts vs 5, netting out to 3.5 extra pts per $ but it's possible the potential hikes would outweigh the added pts received.

I'm not trying to sound like a gloom and doom guy, but just calling it what it is. I think the new combined program has been overwhelmingly positive (new tiers, lifetime, etc.) but there is a big drawback that's coming somewhere and I think this is where it's going to be.

bhrubin

Volvic

Why Marriott should drop down the category for an Hotel ? Quite simple: demand
Marriott Novy Arbat in Moscow (Russia) went down from cat 6 to cat 5 to cat 4 now. Full Marriott property, very nice lounge, good location but... you need a visa and the actual situation (except work cup) is not really so Russian friendly, so less demand,
On the opposite side a Courtyard (yes, Courtyard) but located in Hawaii (Courtyard by Marriott King Kamehameha's Kona Beach Hotel) is cat 7, when I visited it was cat 5 (lucky me) then it moved to 6 and then to 7.

itsallgood

Well, I've got too many points in too many programs. My goal for the rest of 2018 is to spend as close to zero on travel and burn as many points as possible. It's not just Marriott and Starwood; it's everyone - hotels, airlines, even Hertz.

hockeyinsider

To the best of my knowledge, Marriott has never been transparent about how it classifies hotels into categories.

For example, the Marriott in Troy, Michigan (Detroit suburb), was downgraded a category earlier this year. I don't think it was necessarily because of a drop in demand. Instead, I think it was because the hotel is not renovated. Actually, it's getting kind of shabby, especially compared to the nearby just-renovated Marriotts in Southfield and Auburn Hills/Bloomfield Hills/Pontiac. So I think there are several factors that come into play.

Meanwhile, the Marriott at Newark airport is a category 7 award-redemption. I don't for a second believe that a bunch of people are deeming points for a vacation hotel at the Newark airport. That's outrageous.

I don't think anyone outside of Marriott and property management truly know formula used to classify properties. As we've seen with Hyatt and other programs, properties can and do play games to manipulate award-redemptions in their favor.

Look at the J.W. Marriott Phu Quoc Emerald Bay Resort & Spa. They manipulated the system in their favor by giving out amenities and perks for a year after they opened to get folks to visit and redeem points. When the number of award-redemptions were enough to boost their category they eliminated some or all of the amenities and perks.

Marriott would be much better off having an award-redemption chart based on region, brand and hotel rating. Airport hotels shouldn't be above category 4 or category 5, for example. But at least, unlike Delta, the award-redemption chart has been published by Marriott. Now, Marriott needs to be transparent about what is "peak" and "off-peak."

MarkOK

Well, YMMV. Hyatt's smaller footprint may certainly matter to some travelers for specific reasons, but I think this is too often overstated. Hyatt does have a couple hotels in central London. Hyatt does have 4 hotels in the city of Paris (including one that is gotten with a mid-tier award category). As for other places (including in Europe), the recent integration of Oasis Homes into the rewards program puts Rome, Barcelona, and other destinations without a Hyatt hotel on the map for status earning and award earning/redemption, and gives more options in Paris, London, etc. I only need 1 good hotel in these cities to make me happy, -- Starriott having 4 additional options in Paris doesn't matter when I have four great choices with Hyatt already. Yes, the footprint matters to some, but not so much that I think Marriott can be dismissive of the competition.

CPRich

Literally, that would be this year. Would you like me to get my historical files and do a year-by-year analysis when I get home. I have the data. Perhaps you can provide your numbers over the last 5 years to see if our raw data agrees. btw. 80% going up of 10% of properties changing means 92% of properties stayed the same or went down. % direction of properties that changes is meaningless. If all but 1 property was unchanged and 1 went up, would that be "100% devaluation"?

2015 is the worst year I have currently available. A net of 17.5% property increases.

Moving up a category is not "Massive Devaluation", all 45K properties becoming 90K, etc.

Do you not see the difference.
Fwiw, I have 1 MR night this year. Probably 20 over the last 3 years since hitting LT status. The vast, vast majority of my stays are with SPG, and I've been quite critical of MR's fake "No Blackouts" claims for quite some time. But again, don't let facts or logic get in your way of proclamations or personal attacks. (oooh, I'm a Marriott Evangelist - I feel so hurt....)

I've marked your words!! How bold!!!

My bet stands - "Will you bet that all current MR Cat 8 will be Cat 8 in the new program?". 3 month vacation from FT. Accepted? Open to anyone.

boardkicker1015

I messaged the Newport RI Marriott. I stay there every summer during the new port folk festival. I usually book on points early cause its about 550 a night. They are currently an 8 and will be staying an 8 in the new program. So this means it is going from 40k to 85k (most likely 100k during the summer). That means one week is aobut 350-400k. that does not seem really fair.

People talking about how the high end SPG properties will be in the higher range and the Marriott properties will drop. This does not look like its going happen.

Any suggestions on different programs.

JHake10

On the flip side OMAAT points out that with the new chart available on August 1, but without seasonal prices or the higher category 8 yet, there may be some nice opportunities to redeem this year.

Maybe I'll finally make it to Bora Bora or the Maldives.

https://onemileatatime.boardingarea....s-coming-soon/