Worth using points?
Aug 6, 2015 | 8:45 am
#16
Join Date: Jan 2015
Programs: Marriott Titanium and LTP, United Gold
Posts: 827
Fair enough, but that's what I use because that's how the Marriott Rewards program is built. It's designed to reward the 120,000-mile Travel Package above all else. The "penalty" for booking a single-night stay is comparably high.
Starwood and Hyatt are my single-night programs. Of course Starwood rewards 5-night stays, but the penalty for booking a 1-night C&P award is much less.
If I didn't do the volume of hotel stays required to reach a Travel Package at least once every 2 years, I have to admit I'd consider moving *all* stays over to Starwood, Hyatt, or IHG. Those can be much more rewarding for people like redeeming short award stays more frequently.
Agreed...the variability helps, assuming you want to redeem during the peak days/season of course. I'll give Marriott credit for *generally* making these rooms available at a greater rate now than they did a few years back. Redeeming in Phoenix in March is a good example. There aren't many cheap alternatives, Priceline probably won't yield a good result, so using MR points can be pretty attractive. Then you look in August and think "Why is this Category 8 hotel $99/nt.?"...just remember March.
Almost nothing is Category 3 anymore. I have a reservation at a Category 5 Spring Hill Suites in three weeks. A mundane airport hotel in Minnesota. Granted, one I like and visit 2-3 times a year, but that's the baseline for Category 5 these days. I used to value my credit card annual certificates at $200 each, because I could always find a really good hotel for them...midweek stay in DC, even a couple decent European stays when the Euro was $1.40. Now I value them at maybe $100, max. (Thankfully the annual fee is still less than $100.)
That implies that the value of the hotel to me on that stay has also shot up. Just because Marriott wants $300/nt. doesn't mean I value it any more than $150/nt. If I redeem points for it, I'm might still be taking my $150/nt. rate in mind when deciding whether it's worth it....depends on what the other hotel options are and whether I'd really take the trip if I didn't have the points.
Starwood and Hyatt are my single-night programs. Of course Starwood rewards 5-night stays, but the penalty for booking a 1-night C&P award is much less.
If I didn't do the volume of hotel stays required to reach a Travel Package at least once every 2 years, I have to admit I'd consider moving *all* stays over to Starwood, Hyatt, or IHG. Those can be much more rewarding for people like redeeming short award stays more frequently.
Agreed...the variability helps, assuming you want to redeem during the peak days/season of course. I'll give Marriott credit for *generally* making these rooms available at a greater rate now than they did a few years back. Redeeming in Phoenix in March is a good example. There aren't many cheap alternatives, Priceline probably won't yield a good result, so using MR points can be pretty attractive. Then you look in August and think "Why is this Category 8 hotel $99/nt.?"...just remember March.
Almost nothing is Category 3 anymore. I have a reservation at a Category 5 Spring Hill Suites in three weeks. A mundane airport hotel in Minnesota. Granted, one I like and visit 2-3 times a year, but that's the baseline for Category 5 these days. I used to value my credit card annual certificates at $200 each, because I could always find a really good hotel for them...midweek stay in DC, even a couple decent European stays when the Euro was $1.40. Now I value them at maybe $100, max. (Thankfully the annual fee is still less than $100.)
That implies that the value of the hotel to me on that stay has also shot up. Just because Marriott wants $300/nt. doesn't mean I value it any more than $150/nt. If I redeem points for it, I'm might still be taking my $150/nt. rate in mind when deciding whether it's worth it....depends on what the other hotel options are and whether I'd really take the trip if I didn't have the points.
Washington Dulles Marriott Suites - Cat 4
Two properties I have stayed in that are "business hotels" and low category.
Aug 6, 2015 | 8:49 am
#17
Join Date: Jan 2015
Programs: Marriott Titanium and LTP, United Gold
Posts: 827
I think that's a poor definition really. Many "full service" hotels are vacation properties to a large extent. My definition of a business hotel is one that largely caters to business clients--not vacations. These hotels almost always have very high weekday rates and very low weekend rates.
Aug 6, 2015 | 9:26 am
#18
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Canada
Programs: Marriott LT Gold, IHG Club, Hertz Gold, Aeroplan, Avios, SkyMiles, Thrifty, AMEX
Posts: 989
Thoughts on 2 generalizations mentioned here:
Business hotels=full service: aren't CYs marketed (or were) as business hotels?
Categories follow rates: I'm staying at a SHS north of Boston this weekend where, using the 5th night free (and booking before it went from a Cat. 2 to 3), I was able to get over 0.02 per point. Heck, it would have been cheaper to outright buy the points than to pay the cash rate - by several hundred dollars, in fact.
Business hotels=full service: aren't CYs marketed (or were) as business hotels?
Categories follow rates: I'm staying at a SHS north of Boston this weekend where, using the 5th night free (and booking before it went from a Cat. 2 to 3), I was able to get over 0.02 per point. Heck, it would have been cheaper to outright buy the points than to pay the cash rate - by several hundred dollars, in fact.
Aug 6, 2015 | 10:10 am
#19
Moderator, Marriott Bonvoy & FlyerTalk Evangelist
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Yes, I still believe that CYs are marketed by Marriott as a "business" hotel. The difference now versus when they first developed the brand is that Marriott markets CYs to businesses/corporations (i.e. national contracts). They do NOT market to an individual business traveler. Over the last decade, I've traveled for a few different "large" corporations and every one of their travel websites pushed CYs at the top of their lists.
Aug 6, 2015 | 10:33 am
#20
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To further add to the confusion: I tend to think of hotels completely different if I'm in a suburban location vs. downtown in a large city.
To me, CY = suburban business hotel. I consider staying there because it's cheaper than the suburban full-service Marriotts that sometimes also exist.
When I see CY building a large downtown full-service hotel (e.g. Chicago), my first thought is "why would I stay there when I don't get elite benefits and I can often stay in a nearby Renaissance or Marriott for the same price?" Some of these Courtyards even put a nicer full-service restaurant inside, but why would I pay a 15-20 Marriott point per dollar tax to eat there?
Presumably, if I worked for one of these large corporations, I'd see great CY rates and the Marriotts and Renaissances would look much more expensive - so much so that I'm willing to go endure subpar treatment (or forced to do so by my company).
Perhaps I was lucky in that my last large-firm employer who had a Marriott corporate agreement had a flat city rate. For example, for the DC area, our rate was $180/nt. for any hotel, provided property had rooms available under our rate code. Granted, there were a few hotels that *never* showed up, but there were always a couple dozen that did, sometimes including the Ritz Tyson's Corner. (Kind of an odd place for a Ritz IMHO, but still...I stayed there a couple times.)
To me, CY = suburban business hotel. I consider staying there because it's cheaper than the suburban full-service Marriotts that sometimes also exist.
When I see CY building a large downtown full-service hotel (e.g. Chicago), my first thought is "why would I stay there when I don't get elite benefits and I can often stay in a nearby Renaissance or Marriott for the same price?" Some of these Courtyards even put a nicer full-service restaurant inside, but why would I pay a 15-20 Marriott point per dollar tax to eat there?
Presumably, if I worked for one of these large corporations, I'd see great CY rates and the Marriotts and Renaissances would look much more expensive - so much so that I'm willing to go endure subpar treatment (or forced to do so by my company).
Perhaps I was lucky in that my last large-firm employer who had a Marriott corporate agreement had a flat city rate. For example, for the DC area, our rate was $180/nt. for any hotel, provided property had rooms available under our rate code. Granted, there were a few hotels that *never* showed up, but there were always a couple dozen that did, sometimes including the Ritz Tyson's Corner. (Kind of an odd place for a Ritz IMHO, but still...I stayed there a couple times.)
Aug 7, 2015 | 11:18 am
#21
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: DCA
Programs: MR Plat; AA Gold; UA Silver
Posts: 352
For me, I use points when I have a gut feeling the hotel is over priced and the point redemption isn't horrible. For example, I often use 35,000 points for 1 night (Saturday) at the CY Atlantic City. Is that a lot of points for a CY in a non-major location? Sure. But the going rate in the summer is $299/night + tax. I refuse to pay that for a CY in that location. So it's an easy decision to use points (plus my Sunday night govt rate of $94) and I end up getting 2 nights for about $115 and 35k points, versus paying $400+. Seems like a good value to me.
Aug 7, 2015 | 11:24 am
#22
Join Date: Oct 2001
Programs: LTP, PP
Posts: 9,107
For me, I use points when I have a gut feeling the hotel is over priced and the point redemption isn't horrible. For example, I often use 35,000 points for 1 night (Saturday) at the CY Atlantic City. Is that a lot of points for a CY in a non-major location? Sure. But the going rate in the summer is $299/night + tax. I refuse to pay that for a CY in that location. So it's an easy decision to use points (plus my Sunday night govt rate of $94) and I end up getting 2 nights for about $115 and 35k points, versus paying $400+. Seems like a good value to me.
Aug 7, 2015 | 1:17 pm
#23
Join Date: Jan 2015
Programs: Marriott Titanium and LTP, United Gold
Posts: 827
I've struggled with that in AC as well. Until you notice a very adequate Sheraton across the street for 7000 SPG points ($7,000 credit card spend) vs. $25,000 on the Marriott. That is what it was the last time I looked in 2013 so holy S, category inflation!! And this was on Saturday nights...
Aug 12, 2015 | 11:40 am
#24
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To add to NDN's correct observation, there's *almost* no reason to ever use the Marriott Visa outside of a Marriott hotel. Perhaps there's a case for using it at foreign hotels, airlines, and rental agencies if it's the only FX-free card you hold, but I'd probably respond to that by saying "get a better FX-free card."
I suppose there's also a *very* niche case of being 1 night short of an elite tier, and spending $3,000 on the card (costing you $60 or so vs. using a better card) beats a mattress run.
The MR Visa is primarily for use at the hotels. For that, it's fantastic. Given that a Cat 5 free night is still worth (IMHO) about $85 or perhaps a little more, it's basically a free card to have. It nudges you along towards Gold/Plat more quickly and bumps your earnings on stays a healthy amount.
But basing calculations on 1pt-per-dollar spend it kind of meaningless. You shouldn't be doing that to begin with. Use your SPG Amex (or something else if you don't like SPG).
I suppose there's also a *very* niche case of being 1 night short of an elite tier, and spending $3,000 on the card (costing you $60 or so vs. using a better card) beats a mattress run.
The MR Visa is primarily for use at the hotels. For that, it's fantastic. Given that a Cat 5 free night is still worth (IMHO) about $85 or perhaps a little more, it's basically a free card to have. It nudges you along towards Gold/Plat more quickly and bumps your earnings on stays a healthy amount.
But basing calculations on 1pt-per-dollar spend it kind of meaningless. You shouldn't be doing that to begin with. Use your SPG Amex (or something else if you don't like SPG).
Aug 12, 2015 | 11:55 am
#25
Join Date: Jan 2015
Programs: Marriott Titanium and LTP, United Gold
Posts: 827
To add to NDN's correct observation, there's *almost* no reason to ever use the Marriott Visa outside of a Marriott hotel. Perhaps there's a case for using it at foreign hotels, airlines, and rental agencies if it's the only FX-free card you hold, but I'd probably respond to that by saying "get a better FX-free card."
I suppose there's also a *very* niche case of being 1 night short of an elite tier, and spending $3,000 on the card (costing you $60 or so vs. using a better card) beats a mattress run.
The MR Visa is primarily for use at the hotels. For that, it's fantastic. Given that a Cat 5 free night is still worth (IMHO) about $85 or perhaps a little more, it's basically a free card to have. It nudges you along towards Gold/Plat more quickly and bumps your earnings on stays a healthy amount.
But basing calculations on 1pt-per-dollar spend it kind of meaningless. You shouldn't be doing that to begin with. Use your SPG Amex (or something else if you don't like SPG).
I suppose there's also a *very* niche case of being 1 night short of an elite tier, and spending $3,000 on the card (costing you $60 or so vs. using a better card) beats a mattress run.
The MR Visa is primarily for use at the hotels. For that, it's fantastic. Given that a Cat 5 free night is still worth (IMHO) about $85 or perhaps a little more, it's basically a free card to have. It nudges you along towards Gold/Plat more quickly and bumps your earnings on stays a healthy amount.
But basing calculations on 1pt-per-dollar spend it kind of meaningless. You shouldn't be doing that to begin with. Use your SPG Amex (or something else if you don't like SPG).
Aug 12, 2015 | 12:33 pm
#26
Join Date: Oct 2001
Programs: LTP, PP
Posts: 9,107
You are looking at it the wrong way. Most Hotel loyalty programs work by making it easiest to earn points with hotel stays. Marriott and Hilton are the prime examples, but IHG is that way, too. Airline loyalty programs, however, make it easiest to earn points through credit card spend or other means--NOT BY FLYING. SPG works like an airline program, which is why the points are transferrable 1-1 or greater to airline programs. So your example is correct if you are considering credit card spend, but in terms of hotel stays, the 25,000 marriott points are $2500 in non-elite hotel spend or $1667 in highest-level hotel spend. Consider the same for SPG... 7000 points is $3500 in hotel spend for regulars and $2333 for platinum members.
And recall that CY is now 35,000, up from 25,000 in 2013, simply absurd. But with Marriott's runaway category inflation, I really should burn those points first...
Aug 12, 2015 | 1:44 pm
#27
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And Marriott isn't the worst with category inflation. Hilton and IHG both have been worse over the last few years (with IHG handing out the double whammy of increasing points costs while reigning in the bonus points opportunities.)
Aug 12, 2015 | 4:23 pm
#28
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Aug 12, 2015 | 6:49 pm
#29
Join Date: Jan 2015
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Aug 12, 2015 | 10:11 pm
#30
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