Marriott doesn't have to "prove" anything. It's Marriott's programs, you have no ownership in the account or its contents, so all Marriott needs to do is determine that you've violated and then take action.

The scammers cost Marriott millions and that is ultimately picked up by investors and consumers. So, it's a good move for the honest.

1. Then they shouldn't create the 10 elite nights per meeting program, or have some kind of restrictions.

2. Agree on both points.

Marriott isn't talking specifics, just blanket statement.

Cheers.

You cannot use someone else's MR#, even a spouse, if that person isn't staying with you. If you lie and claim the spouse is going to be there, you are telling a lie to get certs you wouldn't otherwise get.

There is no problem if a couple travels together and alternates whose account is used. There is a problem if you intentionally deceive Marriott, and, according to Marriott, violate the T&Cs (asked the question, posted Marriott's answer in the other thread) in order to get certs that, if the truth were known, you wouldn't be given.

Otherwise, why don't we all just use other people's MR#s and get certs for every two stays? Marriott limits those who get certs to two certs per promotion. I'm getting 55k points for 25 stays. Why shouldn't I switch promos and get a dozen certs instead? Then transfer the certs to points and move them all to my account. Instead of 55k points, I can get 250k points that way.

Yes, and you can often check in before the other person arrives. However, when you engage in these activities dishonestly, for the sole purpose of getting certs you otherwise wouldn't get, you are telling lies to steal. It's very clear.

The T&Cs indicate it is unacceptable. Marriott's response indicated it is unacceptable. Marriott is the sole arbiter for MRs, so there is no getting around it is unacceptable.

This is different than the ten credits for CY meeting rooms, as there is no rule in the T&Cs requiring you actually have the meeting. There is a clear, straightforward rule indicating you cannot stay using someone else's MR# and you cannot get points/credits for those stays. The meeting room thing is a loophole that Marriott could choose to close, but doesn't. The cert stealing is clearly different, as it involves telling lies and intentionally breaking clear, written rules.

No. Marriott doesn't care why you are staying, just that you are there when your MR# is used.

Yes, but when you check in claiming the other person will be arriving at the hotel when you know the person isn't, both you and the other person have violated the T&Cs. When you do this scheme to get certs, when you receive the certs, you are not only violating the T&Cs, but you are committing fraud, and you are stealing.

Our standards should be higher than, "I won't get caught." (Not saying you are invoking that standard: realize you are just stating it.)

And all of that is an ethical debate that can take place in Omni.

Marriott tightened up its T&Cs. Since none of us work for Marriott/sat in on the meetings when they decided to do so, we have zero way of knowing if it was due to abuse, people walking away from their timeshares, elites screaming at front desk clerks (remember, there are 5 things that got tightened up) or just Marriott finally getting around to making things more clearer, something they don't do on a bunch of the other T&Cs.

To me this is not a biggie.

Cheers.

I agree...maybe they (or their lawyers) realized a clause like this was missing and wanted to add it just in case.

Now if they could clarify some of the other T&Cs pertaining to bennies that are written loosely & can be interpreted in different ways - or actually get T&Cs in different parts of the website pertaining to the same exact thing to match we'd be good to go. But we've been asking for that for years & so far nada.

Cheers.

Yeah I be this is just on advice of their lawyers to enable them to protect themselves. They are not going to shut down legitimate accounts because your spouse or mother or daughter checks in once or twice a year, either to earn or burn. They know who their customers are and who the scammers are.

I think it's pretty clear who they're aiming this at.
1) People who haven't paid their bills
2) People who continually abuse hotel staff
3) fraudulent behavior
It is written in a manner that they can cancel anyone's account if they determine you're abusing the program.

I don't think that this is aimed at those that book meetings; this is a well known loophole that raises revenue for Marriott. It's definitely not aimed at mattress runners, as they also produce revenue.

They may be being proactive, rather than IHG's reactive cancelling of some members' accounts for making too many BRG claims. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/inter...ll-me-why.html


As far as someone else staying on your account, I have coordinated with individual hotels in the past for my children to stay on rewards stays. It has never been an issue and most hotels have extended them my platinum benefits ... I didn't ask for them to extend any plat benefits.
In one case, my daughter wasn't old enough (21) to be listed as an occupant of the room but one of her friends was 21, so the hotel accepted my daughter's friend's name as the primary guest. Of course all hotels had my credit card for any charges or damages.


Bottom line: there are certain customers that just aren't worth the hassle as it costs more to keep the customer than to dump them. This is just a way to get rid of bad customers. Personally, I'd love it if all hotel programs banned customers who behave poorly.

+1

+1. I frequently add my wife or other coworker if they are going to be getting to an area before I am. I make all the hotel reservations for my small office. Of course, (other than my wife), when they get there they put their MR number and CC on the room. I've never had any issues before. In the times when my coworkers don't want to get marriott pts, I pay for the room with my CC and have them reimburse me so I can get the points (up to 3 total rooms). I don't see how this is violating the T&Cs.

Doesn't matter if there are multiple people in the room. What matters is that if you use your # that you are in that room. Arrival and departure times don't matter.

The whole point here is that just like other air carriers and chains, Marriott is cracking down on the gamers. These are people who may spend money at Marriott, but ultimately are money losers.

So, Marriott fires them.