plagwate

Though not surprised, I'm disappointed in his answers. So I'm curious, what is the next largest hotel chain in the US, by number of locations?

tomy77

I know

"We even evaluated our version against that of our competitor with our members, and found the attractiveness of both options to be fairly even."
Haha...

I'm guessing Hilton?

flyerwife

Thanks, JimBob, for your efforts.

Maybe I am just cynical, but this is how I read it, in a nutshell:

It's too expensive for Marriott to give elites any REAL benefits; they know people are going to stay at their hotels anyway, so why bother.

I see absolutely no movement on Marriott's part to do anything towards upgrading the experience for their most loyal customers. None.

flyerwife

Amazing that Ed French thinks this makes any sense.

socrates

Yes

GrizShel

I feel the same way about these things. I am astounded that Ed French sounds like he doesn't even know the basics of hotel economics (I know this can't be true - but this is the way he sounds to me especially regarding his discussion of BOGOs). There are typically very low rates and occupancies (the two go hand-in-hand obviously) of the vast majority of FS Marriott non-resort properties on weekends. I can assure Mr. French that for the vast majority of BOGO-eligible nights I could get similar rates for the same or a similar property by other means such as opaque Priceline booking. Rarely are these properties anywhere close to full during weekends. Essentially, the BOGOs gave your best customers the opportunity to get rooms at excellent rates during times when those rooms wouldn't be otherwise sold and created enormous goodwill. This was one of the key benefits of higher tier elite status with Marriott and made up for the paucity of benefits for the business person when on leisure travel. It is astounding to me after a year of study and focus groups Mr. French and his staff did not pick up on these points and still fail to understand that, long-term, the BOGO program was a win-win for Marriott, their properties, and their customers.

It's a small added-convenience factor to be able to book so-called "cash and points" nights together in one reservation that personally I might possibly use to save me 5 or 10 minutes of time to check-in and check-out on the rate change day perhaps a handful of times before I die. There is absolutely no comparison between the degree of value of this benefit and that of the Starwood cash and points which is actually closer to the BOGO program in terms of its impact - basically allows one a favorable rate on certain properties during times of low occupancy like the BOGO did (it provides added value, not just the simple addition of cash and points).

I am concerned that if Mr. French doesn't understand these points about the BOGO and cash+points benefits, then there must be a serious problem over at MR in their approach to research and analysis of customer preferences and psychology.

travelexpert

This statement is SOOOOO ridiculous--calls everything Mr. French said into question.

Is he due for retirement anytime soon?

Actually--a "forced retirement" wouldn't be a bad idea--saving on his salary could compensate for giving those "expensive" benefits loyal members would truly value.

Moriens

I agree with that. At Marriott, “elites” are silver and above, even if the BOGOs were only available at the gold level.

For several years I spent close to 100 nights at Starwood (even though 50 nights was their top tier) and about 10 at Marriott, just barely making silver. I had absolutely no idea that splitting up nights differently could somehow get me a 50% discount on some Marriott stays. (I hadn't heard about Marriott BOGO offers until people started complaining a lot about “no more BOGOs” here.)

(How many Marriott elites are familiar with Starwood's ZB4 or Z3H rates? Or know that Starwood downloads and keeps your Facebook profile photo? Even Marriott's own Elite Exclusive Rates are well hidden.)

Moriens

Are Marriott's E-Breaks (MEB) rates current the solution to this?

Were the rates low enough to make people switch their profitable weekday nights from another chain to Marriott? What sort of rates did you get while this program was active?

SkiAdcock

Well said.

I'm not sure what you mean by splitting up nights getting a 50% discount? It doesn't under the cash+points program.

With BOGO you weren't 'splitting up' nights, but making a reservation for 2 nights on a weekend at a participating property* & getting the 2nd night free, which basically resulted in a 50% discount for the 2-night stay.

*Participating property list dwindled significantly over the years, excluding int'l & most major US cities, especially on the Eastern seaboard.

1. No. E-breaks have also existed & give you a slight discount, and were usually limited to smaller, obscure properties with low occupancy rather than the higher cat, full-service properties.

2. Yes, both because the lounges are open on weekends and because you then had access to BOGOs. Rates varied, but they could be quite low or even if slightly higher, when divided by 50% for the 2 nights made the weekend stay a reasonable stay in terms of $$ vs. very expensive. BTW - Ed's reasoning on the demise of BOGOs has nothing to do & pretty much contradicts what Michelle from Marriott said.

On a dif note - did people notice that Ed said in the US, elites only get suite upgrades 10% of the time?

Cheers.

SkiAdcock

I posted the following on Insiders when someone took exception to OU812's post in this thread, which was cut/pasted on the Insider's thread.

"I didn't make the post, but I agree with part of it. Ed said the company line, which is fine & is what I would expect. I've actually met Ed & like the guy. But that doesn't negate that all of what he said makes sense and/or is a good thing for Marriott's elites.


For example, on the BOGO. The part I don't get is if, as Ed said, most elites didn't know about them & hardly used them, then why not keep them? It's offering a benefit which Marriott's elites would appreciate. Marriott looks like it's offering a bennie to elites, but knows it's not going to cost that much due to elites not really using them so won't impact revenue that much: a bit of a win-win. Same with the part on the hotels refusing to accept them. If they weren't being used that often, then why were the hotels unhappy? And it doesn't mesh with what Michelle said in the BOGO thread about why they were shut down (ie, being used too often, being sold on eBay, FDC didn't know how to process them, etc). Obviously there's a disconnect.

The other part about the BOGOs was that over the years less & less properties were included - international was excluded, as were most hi-cat, full-service properties in major domestic cities, especially on the eastern seaboard. But they were still beneficial to elites where they could be used. Same with Point Savers; fewer of them in general & again usually not the hi-cat, full service properties in major cities.

I'm not totally buying that elites said they'd rather have a cash+points system where you can combine them in one ressie (which you could do already, although it required one extra step) over the cash+points system ala Starwood. I'd like to see the #s responding to a) Marriott way; b) Starwood way - assuming they were even told about the Starwood way. Ed never actually says the focus group was given the other option to rank. (Yes, I realize those #s won't be made available).

Also, I bet those folk who were interviewed weren't told that the cash+points can't be used with AAA & other rates. There have already been examples where using the cash+points Marriott system in its current incarnation costs more than doing the resssies w/ the extra step, aka, the old way. BTW - I have no problem w/ Marriott offering a program re: combining ressies (although I do have a problem w/ AAA etc rates being excluded) & think it will prove helpful to some folk/makes sense for them to do so. But I do think it's a bit misleading to name it after a well-established program by a competitor that has a different meaning & make it sound as though it's the same. There were other names they could have named the program & gotten the concept across.

Re: breakfast 7days/week in the exec lounges/lounges being open. Marriott used to do that as recently as a few years ago (CYs & resorts excluded). When the economy took a tumble, they cut back on the weekend offerings. The main reason given was due to expense. Yet Marriott's competitors (in the same economic environment) have kept their lounges open on the weekend and/or offered cont'l brekkie 7days/week & evidently feel it's worth the expense. And the economy/hotel bookings have rebounded since that time. So the competitors trump Marriott in that area.

What I took from Ed's comment is Marriott isn't going to penalize the individual hotels who have decided to keep their lounges open and/or offer brekkie when the lounge is closed, but I don't see Marriott opening up lounges again across the US on the weekend anytime soon. BTW - as someone who has to travel for bizness on the weekends, this does impact me. Not everyone at a hotel on a weekend is a leisure traveler paying cheap rates.

Sidenote: I maintain a sticky on Flyertalk in the Marriott forum w/ the status of lounges open/closed on the weekends and/or if brekkie coupons are offered, both for domestic & int'l properties, so if someone is interested re: a property & their status, they can always check that. It takes a lot of effort to maintain & update the list, so I'm not posting it on Insiders as it would take up too much of my time to duplicate the list/updates.

Re: CYs offering brekkie (at all). I don't see that happening. For whatever reason, Marriott has decided this is a brand that won't offer it (even though HGI does). Elites have been complaining about it for years & I don't see it changing. Shrug - it is what it is at this point. I also seriously doubt that they're going to add brekkie at resorts, although again it's something their competitors do at their resorts. So on the resorts at least, the competitors trump Marriott.

What I would like to see change (and I'd push for this a lot more than the brekkie!) is that now that there are brands that offer things like restaurants/bars (CY w/ the new Bistros, SHS w/ similar), Autograph Collection, AC & let's not forget - Ritz Carltons, to get points for incidental spend. It makes no sense to me (using the high-end RC as an example) that someone spends a fortune on meals and/or spa activities at a RC & gets zero points. The same (using a more down to earth example) w/ meals/drinks at CY, SHS, Auto Collection & AC. Speaking only for myself, until Marriott provides points on incidental spends my incidental spends will be done off-site. I see no point in giving Marriott additional revenue when I don't benefit. The business/financial aspect goes both ways.

I was stunned when Ed said that Platinum members get suite upgrades in the US only 10% of the time. I knew it wasn't that high & isn't guaranteed, but quite frankly I didn't think it was that low either.

There are a # of things Marriott does right. I've been staying with Marriott for years & am Lifetime Plat. I like the consistency of the properties. I can redeem awards easily, and like the new 5th night free. Yes, Marriott elite status is more diffiult to attain but as Ed mentions, there are multiple ways to achieve & keep it. Marriott has the BRG/LNF program. Marriott started a Lifetime program long before its competitors. Because of that I stay at Marriotts more. One of the things I like about Marriott (and Hilton too for that matter, which is Marriott's equivalent in terms of brands/locations) is that there are so many brands under the company umbrella, so depending on location and/or price I've got options.

I give Marriott credit where credit is due, but I also call them on it when things aren't done well. In my opinion, that's what good customers do. For one thing, if feedback isn't given in both directions Marriott won't know what works best for its customers/elites & what doesn't & needs to be re-evaluated."

Cheers.