Boy, Timeshares are starting to sound more and more like all the Wall Street derivatives and other mortgage "products" that nearly sunk the country 2 years ago. Just keep adding options and confusion until the regular guy without an MBA can't keep up.

As a non-owner, I just can't see what the fuss is all out. For the first time ever, I stayed at a MVC at Grand Vista, Orlando paying $169 less a $30 night credit - in lieu of a normal hotel. Just me and 1500 other units sharing the same tiny pools off the side of a highway.

Yes, the rooms were larger and nicer than a normal hotel but to lock yourself in at these rates, year after year, is it just me that's crazy?

No, it isn't just you.

I really do like staying at MVCI properties. The extra room, full kitchen, in-room laundry, and quite often access to a nearby resort amenities more than makes up for no CL. But over the last few years, when I've looked, I've been fairly lucky enough to find rates like what you mention that end up being less than a yearly mainenance fee would be, much less add in the cost of purchasing a week.

So I also just don't really see the big benefit either. That is probably why I don't own any MVCI (or other Timeshare) weeks, but have been on quite a few of the tours for points or a reduced nightly rate.

Be glad you didn't - you could save a bundle purchasing on the resale market. As it stands now, you only got ripped off for the week your purchased.

Actually ARMs were a better deal at various points during the last decade. My 5/1 just adjusted down to 3.25% for the rest of the year. And if I refi now I can get 4.5% on a 30-year fixed which is the lowest rate on record. I don't know anyone getting killed on ARMs except for the subprime borrowers who probably should not have been underwritten in the first place. People with fixed rate loans are generally doing refi's now (if they haven't already) , but there is no way for them to get back the interest that they overpaid by taking a 30 year fixed product with a higher initial rate.

Agree 100%. Timeshares are a ponzi-like scheme but perhaps similar to FF mileage programs than social security. Demand will always be very high for peak weeks and peak properties, such that those who own lesser properties may find it difficult to trade for the prime weeks. And the maintenance fees will only go one direction (over the past decade they have doubled on my brother's SVO week). Hence many strapped owners are selling their units for next to nothing just to escape the burden of maint fees.

That being said, both my parents and my in-laws get good value from their timeshares vs. the cost of booking resort hotel rooms for the entire extended family. They are able to do so because they are able to make reservations for peak weeks as soon as the schedule opens (365 days @ 9am) or trade for peak weeks at the earliest opportunity.

But for many of us it would be a ripoff, and we all know how points inevitably get depreciated. Not good news for Marriott owners.

I am very glad that we own where we're happy to return each year -- Maui Ocean Club (2 weeks) and Canyon Villas (PHX)(1 week). We've been using an old Grande Vista week to pair woth CV to get 13 month booking rights, and bought Lakeshore Reserve planning to use it every other year or so, or rent it out. We have liberally traded GV for MR points, occasionally deposited and traded through II over the years since our first MVCI purchase in 1995 (Kauai Beach Club, which Marriott took in trade from us in 2007 or 2008 for our MOC purchase at much more than we had paid for it - a rarity, I suspect) When we trade, it is almost always to other top-trading properties.

All that said, I have NO interest in the new points system. I suspect most owners of Platinum weeks in premium locations, esp. those (like us) who bought from Marriott, will NOT join, though there will be outright revolt if and when Marriott cuts the MR link. (We have kids living outside the US, so the MR points have been very useful.) Our GV property will be worth little, but it was paid off long ago, and I expect we'll be able to rent it to cover the maintenance fee. If Marriott inventory available through II dries up, so be it - going back to Maui and PHX every year isn't so bad, especially since those are working vacations, and we'll find a use for the FL weeks.

However, this is only first impression - I reserve the right to change my mind completely after I delve into the materials more thoroughly!

Browsing all of this makes me even more glad I was able to resell my Kauai TS(shortly before the 2008 stock market crash). For me, I'd been sold a bill of goods by the sales mgr there and didn't know enough of what I was doing to figure it out at the time(my fault).

Just highlights to me how often these deals are not so good, as one never knows how things are gonna change(such as 'extra' assessments for building repairs, higher taxes, etc., etc., etc.).

I'll take my chances with either conventional reservations or TS rentals; not much downside there, just a known $cost$ up front.

While TS are ok for some, I sure wouldn't recommend it for most. Most surprising to me(dumb, I know) was how Marriott turned out to be just one more corporation out for max $$$. BUT, I'm OUT and I learned my lesson on that one

As an owner of 7 TS's myself, I guess you guys would need to spend as much time on TUG as you spend here to understand the value of TS's.

I'm a frequent lounger at TUG and went back and forth about buying a Marriott until I finally decided to sit it out with the new points program coming onboard and bought Hilton instead. I am so glad I did despite being a pretty loyal MR user for 20 years.

Marriott has just killed the resale market for their owners with this new system with points that do not transfer with the sale. Pretty soon Marriott resales will be selling on ebay for $1 like Wyndham and other TS's do. Lucky for Marriott they have ROFR and will be scooping up those $1 deals to fund their points program. It's actually pure genius on the part of Marriott. Ruin the market for sellers who need to sell so you can fly in and grab those killer ebay deals without having to lift a finger to find them.

No expensive resorts to build and have to carry while selling, just resell what you've already built and during these tough times how can they lose. Unless of course a buyer sitting in a MVCI sales presentation goes back to his room to research if what he just bought is worth the price he paid. When google brings him right to TUG and he sees all the flame throwing going on then Marriott might be processing alot of recission letters.

It's a shame they decided to skim on their most loyal fan base. It's just such bad business practice. Unfortunately all this negative press has tarnished my 25 plus year relationship with the brand and am happy that Hilton treats it's resale customers with much more respect.

And in case you are wondering why I own 7 TS's, it's because when you learn to work the TS systems, you can stay in nice 2 bedroom resorts for about $50 a night or even less by learning the ins and outs of TS's. It might surprise you to know that I've even stayed in a 2 bedroom for 7 nights in Orlando for $79 a week. Now this was no dump but a great TS with all amenities included. So that's why many people on TUG own several weeks. We are as fanatical about TS's as you guys are about flying.

That said, I hope to learn alot from everyone here and I hope that I can share my knowledge of TS'ing.

After digesting the latest thread on TUG, I'm thinking you won't be changing your mind anytime soon.

The idea of having two separate pools and not allowing legacy (enrolled weeks owners) access to the points pool is total insanity. But to make matters worse, the official Marriott points experts at MVCI (MVCD?) can't even agree on what the rules are regarding this point. After a dozon or so calls to these experts, half say one thing and the other half contradict the first half. That single point really make Marriott look bad. Who wants get involved with a major corporation that can't get it's act straight?

This new program is just wrong on so many levels.

You will change your mind and join. The new program is a slap on the face for most owners but you are among the 20% that will benefit from it. You weeks are strong traders in the destinations exchange program and your annual fees will be lower if trade for MR points or trade internally through II.

I own three great weeks through MVCI and called this morning to get clarity on this new "Enhancement". Basically if we want to preserve the trading power of our weeks, existing owners need to NOT opt into the points system! That's the only way there will still be inventory going into Interval so that we can trade as we always have. Otherwise, with points, it will take up to two years' worth of what we own to be able to trade into other Marriott resorts for a week! That's so crazy that the Marriott Advisor told me this morning that "Marriott doesn't expect existing owners to want to opt into this new system!"

I urge all existing owners to look long and hard at the specifics of this program. Then you, too, will see that our only option is to NOT go with the ridiculously low points they are giving us for our weeks!

Great weeks are in the eye of the beholder. Great weeks which are defined by receiving lots of points when enrolled in the Destination Club may do better by participating in the DC.

Great weeks defined as low cost off season (silver or bronze) weeks that have traded into Waiohai or Crystal Shores should not enroll. However, they should expect fewer of the up-trades because the owners of the prime resorts can gain by enrolling their weeks.

It is important for every owner to look at the specifics because there are two options- join and not join - and no one can say for anyone else what his best option is. Of course, each of us would like everyone else to make the choice that is most beneficial to me.

Art

I would rather say that there are 3 options:

1. Join and use the DC (owners of weeks worth >4,000 points)
2. Join and not use the DC (owners who make savings on their annual fees even if they maintain their current usage pattern)
3. Not join (owners of a single week worth <4,000 points or those who usually occupy their weeks)

OK...I should have been more specific. My point values total more than 10,000 points. We own three platinum weeks. A 3 bedroom lock-off in Grande Vista. Canyon Villas in Phoenix is a two-bedroom lock-off. Lakeshore Reserve is a two bedoom premium lock-off. The Grande Vista and Canyon Villas have always traded well. (LR is new) That's why we purchased those weeks.

My only point is that they sold them to us based on trading power and that has been true up to this point. However, with the point values they are giving, it would take two complete (not locked-off) weeks to get one President's Week at a warm location. That certainly does not match what we purchased!

I think it is telling when a Marriott rep says they don't expect existing owners to participate. They know they are low-balling these points.

I didn't mean to sound presumptuous in telling people what to do. Of course everyone should make their own decision. I am merely stating that people should get the facts and think this through. Look at what points they are giving you and how many points you will need to trade into another Marriott resort. If you have traded well through Interval, then the only way you will continue to do so is if inventory from existing owners continues to go in. No new inventory is going to come in because Marriott is now only selling points. It really does change what we bought in a negative way.