Sep 26, 2019, 1:59 pm
Last edit by: Oxon Flyer
Marriott page on C&P:
https://www.marriott.com/loyalty/red...cash-points.mi
To view the calendar of Peak / Off-Peak points rates, on the booking webpage check the "Use Points / Certificates" box, open the calendar and select 'Flexible Dates'.
https://www.marriott.com/loyalty/red...cash-points.mi
To view the calendar of Peak / Off-Peak points rates, on the booking webpage check the "Use Points / Certificates" box, open the calendar and select 'Flexible Dates'.
Bonvoy Off-Peak and Peak Redemption Rates, LIVE from 14 Sep 2019
Sep 17, 2019, 9:50 am
#241
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Southern California, USA
Programs: Marriott Ambassador and LTT, UA Plat/LT Gold, AA Gold
Posts: 8,764
There are "Ambassador guests" (the bulk of the people in this forum I'd imagine who have the status), and my sense of the overall tone is, there are nice experiences here and there, better chances at suites, but generally mediocre communication from the Ambassadors themselves, and a low ROI on $20K spend these days. And often an overall experience downgrade for those who had Ambassadors in the SPG days (my personal experiences generally).
Then there are one, maybe two, who have a Unicorn Ambassador as I call it (possibly helped by directing broad spend to Marriott, likely giving them a higher internal designation for "better" treatment across the board, in my theory), who get multi-room suites confirmed months in advance, etc. Nice for them, but nowhere near representative of the standard Ambassador experience.
I personally would rather hear about the Ambassador experience in the fat part of the bell curve, vs. the top 1-2% of that curve.
Then there are one, maybe two, who have a Unicorn Ambassador as I call it (possibly helped by directing broad spend to Marriott, likely giving them a higher internal designation for "better" treatment across the board, in my theory), who get multi-room suites confirmed months in advance, etc. Nice for them, but nowhere near representative of the standard Ambassador experience.
I personally would rather hear about the Ambassador experience in the fat part of the bell curve, vs. the top 1-2% of that curve.
My Ambassador experience was spectacularly good with SPG and is even a little better now with Marriott Bonvoy—and my Ambassador hasn’t changed. Others also have tremendous experiences now as Ambassadors and it has little to do with how good or how not good their actual Ambassador agents are as you insist on claiming.
Ambassador wasn’t a status under SPG; it was just a Plat level that offered an Ambassador agent to try and make everything better for those of us who stayed 100+ nights. Hotels had no idea of our 100 nights or priority unless they heard directly from our Ambassadors. And even then, so many Plat100s claimed their Ambassadors supposedly weren’t as good as others—when in fact it was also as much about how much spending we had without knowing it and about the quality of hotels at which we stayed. I constantly called out Plat100s who complained all the time because they didn’t want to believe what I kept insisting.
Yet it turned out that I was dead right on every element.
Ambassador status is now an actual status tier with Marriott...and as a result, all hotels know and can execute to prioritize us without ever needing any contact at all from our Ambassador agents as was required with SPG.
So this wrongheaded need for an Ambassador unicorn to have an amazing Ambassador experience that you keep mentioning is just plain wrong.
Many if not most Ambassadors get pre-upgraded to suites well before arrival at hotels that actually have more than a few suites in the first place. Most of us get upgrades to even specialty suites, something that isn’t guaranteed but such many hotels with plenty of suites do now for us as a simple matter of our VIP elite recognition. And nary a word is needed from our Ambassador agents to accomplish those in most cases. For Ambassador guests who are returning guests to such hotels, almost all of us get pre-upgraded constantly to suites even when those hotels are often sold out. Say what you want, but the Ambassador experience is vastly better than you want to characterize it for most.
So please stop misinforming others about the Ambassador experience. Only yesterday, we have an Ambassador guest at the RC Laguna Niguel who was pre-upgraded to an Executive Suite with Club access. We had another Ambassador upgraded to the top suite at the Four Points Zayed in Dubai—which only has a few suites. We had another Ambassador upgraded to the Renaissance specialty suite at the Ren Hamburg. And another was upgraded to a loft suite at the Warehouse in Singapore.
The idea that one needs a unicorn Ambassador to get amazing upgrades or experiences as an Ambassador guest is dated to the pre-Bonvoy days. Please come up to speed on what is true now. If you have any questions, I’m more than happy to answer them and give you correct information for what is true now. For any Ambassador guests who want to see for themselves, they are most welcome to join, as well—as long as they can prove their Ambassador status and identity.
As a result, we as Ambassador guests get a much better value for our points when we redeem them as awards...since we almost always get upgraded to better rooms and usually, even in higher season, get upgraded to even more pricey suites that often aren’t available for upgrade to even Titanium and Platinum guests.
Ambassador status matters a lot. And it makes our points worth a lot more than they are for others.
Last edited by bhrubin; Sep 17, 2019 at 10:10 am
Sep 17, 2019, 10:05 am
#242
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: MSP
Programs: Marriott Lifetime Titanium, UA Silver, Hertz 5*
Posts: 913
IMO, the only way to get anywhere close to 1cpp post the latest devaluation is to redeem for 5 nights with the 5th (lowest priced) night free during extremely peak times when the room rate is astronomical. I don't see any other way of crossing the 1cpp value.
Sep 17, 2019, 10:20 am
#243
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 54
I am surprised all the nights didn’t become 40,000. It seems like there are more than 3 categories of redemption. Something like standard 5 would be 35,000 and high standard Cat. 5 would be 40,000, thus taking your credit card Cat. 5 annual room out of availability.
Sep 17, 2019, 10:22 am
#244
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Northern California
Programs: I want to be free! Free!
Posts: 3,455
Sep 17, 2019, 10:25 am
#245
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 7
Marriott is a publicly traded company. It has a duty to increase profits and shareholder value. Whenever a rewards program is updated, whether it be Starbucks or Marriott, it is done to increase profits for the company. Of course, part of the equation is to keep customers happy, but at the end of the day, the new formula is going to mean more revenue for Marriott and overall less value to the customer. If at some point down the road, they discover that they are losing market share to Hilton or Hyatt there could be tweaks to benefit us. I just wouldn't hold your breath waiting for that to happen.
Sep 17, 2019, 10:37 am
#246
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Southern California, USA
Programs: Marriott Ambassador and LTT, UA Plat/LT Gold, AA Gold
Posts: 8,764
Indeed. But it also helps to focus on what the competition is doing and to focus on customers who spend the most and most make the company profitable.
Relative to the competition, Marriott is doing better than Hilton in terms of elite benefits to its better customers. Relative to the competition, Marriott is doing better than Accor and IHG by any even wider margin for elite benefits to its better customers. Relative to Hyatt, Marriott offers better benefits for its best customers than Hyatt does for its best customers (despite protests to the contrary from people who don't know better) and does so with a massively better portfolio of properties and a massively larger number of customers.
Sep 17, 2019, 10:44 am
#247
Suspended
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: EWR/PHL/BWI
Posts: 4,412
I wish there were an "ignore" button to use at FT.
After having gone through the previous Marriot changes over the past a couple of years, this peak off-peak change is not that huge. I've learnt to work around the existing system and not fight it. Changes are unavoidable.
Had Marriott chosen to adopt an uncompromising approach like Hyatt does, then we probably would not have this much discussion.
Or do as what Hilton did.
After having gone through the previous Marriot changes over the past a couple of years, this peak off-peak change is not that huge. I've learnt to work around the existing system and not fight it. Changes are unavoidable.
Had Marriott chosen to adopt an uncompromising approach like Hyatt does, then we probably would not have this much discussion.
Or do as what Hilton did.
Sep 17, 2019, 10:45 am
#248
In memoriam
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: MAN
Programs: Marriott Lifetime Titanium, IHG Spire, UA Silver, Dennis The Menace Fan Club
Posts: 1,457
1cpp is still easily obtained...
Sep 17, 2019, 10:46 am
#249
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Southern California, USA
Programs: Marriott Ambassador and LTT, UA Plat/LT Gold, AA Gold
Posts: 8,764
Sep 17, 2019, 10:55 am
#250
Suspended
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: EWR/PHL/BWI
Posts: 4,412
Some people just have too much time to kill and the time can surely be used elsewhere to be more productive.
As to the peak pricing impact on the redemption value, I do not look that closely at the point value. The hotel can set the same hotel at $800/night or $300/night. There are so many factors and some seem a bit arbitrary. We do not travel to that hotel just based on point value. We need to take other factors into the consideration. Transportation is the other main factor.
As to the peak pricing impact on the redemption value, I do not look that closely at the point value. The hotel can set the same hotel at $800/night or $300/night. There are so many factors and some seem a bit arbitrary. We do not travel to that hotel just based on point value. We need to take other factors into the consideration. Transportation is the other main factor.
Sep 17, 2019, 11:00 am
#251
Join Date: Feb 2018
Programs: Bonvoy :Ambassador , ALL :Diamond, Skywards :Silver, Krisflyer :Silver
Posts: 2,808
I guess enough about non peak and off peak discussion.
Although I plan to use most of my stays for airline miles, after checking the redemption rate at non seasonal resorts, I find the new update create interesting way to book with points.
Couple of city hotels that I check do have mixture of peak, standard, and off peak rates throughout the month.
Interestingly, checking point redemption at St Regis Singapore for December, it shows that from 1-26 Dec its off peak for the whole time
Cash price however, not always directly related with the off peak/peak rate. For this hotel the cash rate hovers between S$308 to S$416 during those off peak periods
Checking Marriott Tang Plaza, favourite hotels for shoppers, they even have off peak point saver rate for the weekends of the same month.
Cash rate for these off peak point saver period hovers from S4274 all the way to S$415
Flexible travelers will be able to gain from this.
Although I plan to use most of my stays for airline miles, after checking the redemption rate at non seasonal resorts, I find the new update create interesting way to book with points.
Couple of city hotels that I check do have mixture of peak, standard, and off peak rates throughout the month.
Interestingly, checking point redemption at St Regis Singapore for December, it shows that from 1-26 Dec its off peak for the whole time
Cash price however, not always directly related with the off peak/peak rate. For this hotel the cash rate hovers between S$308 to S$416 during those off peak periods
Checking Marriott Tang Plaza, favourite hotels for shoppers, they even have off peak point saver rate for the weekends of the same month.
Cash rate for these off peak point saver period hovers from S4274 all the way to S$415
Flexible travelers will be able to gain from this.
Sep 17, 2019, 11:00 am
#252
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: san francisco.
Programs: Marriott Ti, OW Ruby
Posts: 1,852
It seems important to you that you can discount the obvious positive and often insanely good experiences of most actually verified Ambassador guests (as are abundant in our 450+ member verified Ambassador group on Facebook) and characterize the program as something it isn’t.
My Ambassador experience was spectacularly good with SPG and is even a little better now with Marriott Bonvoy—and my Ambassador hasn’t changed. Others also have tremendous experiences now as Ambassadors and it has little to do with how good or how not good their actual Ambassador agents are as you insist on claiming.
Ambassador wasn’t a status under SPG; it was just a Plat level that offered an Ambassador agent to try and make everything better for those of us who stayed 100+ nights. Hotels had no idea of our 100 nights or priority unless they heard directly from our Ambassadors. And even then, so many Plat100s claimed their Ambassadors supposedly weren’t as good as others—when in fact it was also as much about how much spending we had without knowing it and about the quality of hotels at which we stayed. I constantly called out Plat100s who complained all the time because they didn’t want to believe what I kept insisting.
Yet it turned out that I was dead right on every element.
Ambassador status is now an actual status tier with Marriott...and as a result, all hotels know and can execute to prioritize us without ever needing any contact at all from our Ambassador agents as was required with SPG.
So this wrongheaded need for an Ambassador unicorn to have an amazing Ambassador experience that you keep mentioning is just plain wrong.
Many if not most Ambassadors get pre-upgraded to suites well before arrival at hotels that actually have more than a few suites in the first place. Most of us get upgrades to even specialty suites, something that isn’t guaranteed but such many hotels with plenty of suites do now for us as a simple matter of our VIP elite recognition. And nary a word is needed from our Ambassador agents to accomplish those in most cases. For Ambassador guests who are returning guests to such hotels, almost all of us get pre-upgraded constantly to suites even when those hotels are often sold out. Say what you want, but the Ambassador experience is vastly better than you want to characterize it for most.
So please stop misinforming others about the Ambassador experience. Only yesterday, we have an Ambassador guest at the RC Laguna Niguel who was pre-upgraded to an Executive Suite with Club access. We had another Ambassador upgraded to the top suite at the Four Points Zayed in Dubai—which only has a few suites. We had another Ambassador upgraded to the Renaissance specialty suite at the Ren Hamburg. And another was upgraded to a loft suite at the Warehouse in Singapore.
The idea that one needs a unicorn Ambassador to get amazing upgrades or experiences as an Ambassador guest is dated to the pre-Bonvoy days. Please come up to speed on what is true now. If you have any questions, I’m more than happy to answer them and give you correct information for what is true now. For any Ambassador guests who want to see for themselves, they are most welcome to join, as well—as long as they can prove their Ambassador status and identity.
As a result, we as Ambassador guests get a much better value for our points when we redeem them as awards...since we almost always get upgraded to better rooms and usually, even in higher season, get upgraded to even more pricey suites that often aren’t available for upgrade to even Titanium and Platinum guests.
Ambassador status matters a lot. And it makes our points worth a lot more than they are for others.
My Ambassador experience was spectacularly good with SPG and is even a little better now with Marriott Bonvoy—and my Ambassador hasn’t changed. Others also have tremendous experiences now as Ambassadors and it has little to do with how good or how not good their actual Ambassador agents are as you insist on claiming.
Ambassador wasn’t a status under SPG; it was just a Plat level that offered an Ambassador agent to try and make everything better for those of us who stayed 100+ nights. Hotels had no idea of our 100 nights or priority unless they heard directly from our Ambassadors. And even then, so many Plat100s claimed their Ambassadors supposedly weren’t as good as others—when in fact it was also as much about how much spending we had without knowing it and about the quality of hotels at which we stayed. I constantly called out Plat100s who complained all the time because they didn’t want to believe what I kept insisting.
Yet it turned out that I was dead right on every element.
Ambassador status is now an actual status tier with Marriott...and as a result, all hotels know and can execute to prioritize us without ever needing any contact at all from our Ambassador agents as was required with SPG.
So this wrongheaded need for an Ambassador unicorn to have an amazing Ambassador experience that you keep mentioning is just plain wrong.
Many if not most Ambassadors get pre-upgraded to suites well before arrival at hotels that actually have more than a few suites in the first place. Most of us get upgrades to even specialty suites, something that isn’t guaranteed but such many hotels with plenty of suites do now for us as a simple matter of our VIP elite recognition. And nary a word is needed from our Ambassador agents to accomplish those in most cases. For Ambassador guests who are returning guests to such hotels, almost all of us get pre-upgraded constantly to suites even when those hotels are often sold out. Say what you want, but the Ambassador experience is vastly better than you want to characterize it for most.
So please stop misinforming others about the Ambassador experience. Only yesterday, we have an Ambassador guest at the RC Laguna Niguel who was pre-upgraded to an Executive Suite with Club access. We had another Ambassador upgraded to the top suite at the Four Points Zayed in Dubai—which only has a few suites. We had another Ambassador upgraded to the Renaissance specialty suite at the Ren Hamburg. And another was upgraded to a loft suite at the Warehouse in Singapore.
The idea that one needs a unicorn Ambassador to get amazing upgrades or experiences as an Ambassador guest is dated to the pre-Bonvoy days. Please come up to speed on what is true now. If you have any questions, I’m more than happy to answer them and give you correct information for what is true now. For any Ambassador guests who want to see for themselves, they are most welcome to join, as well—as long as they can prove their Ambassador status and identity.
As a result, we as Ambassador guests get a much better value for our points when we redeem them as awards...since we almost always get upgraded to better rooms and usually, even in higher season, get upgraded to even more pricey suites that often aren’t available for upgrade to even Titanium and Platinum guests.
Ambassador status matters a lot. And it makes our points worth a lot more than they are for others.
You are at the Ambassador level right?...
Sep 17, 2019, 11:07 am
#253
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Southern California, USA
Programs: Marriott Ambassador and LTT, UA Plat/LT Gold, AA Gold
Posts: 8,764
Sep 17, 2019, 11:22 am
#254
Join Date: May 2002
Programs: WN F9 HA UA AA IHG HH MR
Posts: 3,305
Sep 17, 2019, 11:31 am
#255
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Seattle, WA, USA
Posts: 219
Just as a random data point, I have Ambassador status and notice no difference at all from Titanium. My stays are in city hotels, and upscale resort properties around the world. I just hit Titanium for next year a few weeks ago and then got a status challenge for Hyatt.