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Originally Posted by T8191
(Post 31470676)
I’ve just been thinking over destinations over the last few years in the (tobacco) smoking context:
In room ... Cape Town, Honolulu, Phoenix, Anchorage, Savannah ... Balcony ... Maui, Hermanus, Franschhoek, Stellenbosch, St. Lucia, Antigua, Malta, Virginia. Oh, the suffering. Think of the children, and the kittens ... 75 years old and still smoking ;) In room: Cape Town, Johannesburg, Kilimanjaro, Dubai, New York, Los Angeles, Palm Springs, Virginia, The Carolinas, Mexico City, Costa del Sol, Milan. On balcony: Port Elizabeth, Durban, Chicago, San Francisco, Miami, Geneva, Paris. ...and to the best of my knowledge, no kittens were harmed. Whichever side of the debate you are on, just choose a property where the policies meet with your approval. |
None of this matters. OP is not being charged with a misdemeanor or fined by the property. He is being required to pay the property's cleaning fee because, on his watch, the room apparently became sufficiently smoke-filled to require cleaning. That is a judgment call for the property.
The fact that there will be a report from security detailing the balcony incident and a report from housekeeping regarding the smell just puts the boots to any chargeback. This is not a he said / property said. The property will document the charge, the chargeback will be denied (unless OP is a mega-HVC for the card issuer and the issuer eats the chargeback), and that is the end of it. When that happens, OP can pursue a small claims action if he things it's worth it for this sum. |
Originally Posted by Often1
(Post 31470785)
None of this matters. OP is not being charged with a misdemeanor or fined by the property. He is being required to pay the property's cleaning fee because, on his watch, the room apparently became sufficiently smoke-filled to require cleaning. That is a judgment call for the property.
The fact that there will be a report from security detailing the balcony incident and a report from housekeeping regarding the smell just puts the boots to any chargeback. This is not a he said / property said. The property will document the charge, the chargeback will be denied (unless OP is a mega-HVC for the card issuer and the issuer eats the chargeback), and that is the end of it. When that happens, OP can pursue a small claims action if he things it's worth it for this sum. |
Originally Posted by Often1
(Post 31470785)
None of this matters. OP is not being charged with a misdemeanor or fined by the property. He is being required to pay the property's cleaning fee because, on his watch, the room apparently became sufficiently smoke-filled to require cleaning. That is a judgment call for the property.
The fact that there will be a report from security detailing the balcony incident and a report from housekeeping regarding the smell just puts the boots to any chargeback. This is not a he said / property said. The property will document the charge, the chargeback will be denied (unless OP is a mega-HVC for the card issuer and the issuer eats the chargeback), and that is the end of it. When that happens, OP can pursue a small claims action if he things it's worth it for this sum. Or was it just a knee-jerk, they were smoking therefore they pay, situation? |
Originally Posted by mikesyr18
(Post 31470750)
Why did the state even legalize it in the first place if they just half-baked the law. It seems like if you posses a small amount and use it in a private residence it's okay. Otherwise, it's a felony.
Seems like whoever legislated the law didn't think things through. To the OPs issue at hand, if they were on the 53rd floor of the Cosmo with the door closed, there's virtually no way smoke entered the room...the constant wind at that height would dissipate any cloud of smoke. Good luck with your push-back. |
Originally Posted by mikesyr18
(Post 31470750)
Why did the state even legalize it in the first place if they just half-baked the law. It seems like if you posses a small amount and use it in a private residence it's okay. Otherwise, it's a felony.
Seems like whoever legislated the law didn't think things through. |
Originally Posted by Nuhusky
(Post 31470651)
absolutely. Hate smokers and find it terrible that I have to breath in their poison I’m all in favor of penalizing smokers even with malicious fees |
Originally Posted by The_Bouncer
(Post 31470796)
Ah, but did it require additional cleaning? The OP never mentioned anything about a report from housekeeping or any odour.
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Originally Posted by T8191
(Post 31470452)
Two Senior Citizens here ... both smokers (cigarettes only ;)) Always keep the doors closed if smoking on the balcony (unless prohibited, in which case we don’t stay at that hotel).
We are also conscious that neurotic anti-smokers may be on adjacent balconies, and try to ensure our faint smoke emissions aren’t blowing in their direction. How they cope with diesel emissions at street level is a separate subject, of course. It’s become a fashionable bleat by sad people, especially in the USA ... where we will very soon be spending 2 weeks in a tobacco State. IIRC, Virginia doesn’t tax cigars, just cigarettes: how cute is that? As to the main point, the Hotel is taking the pi$$, especially when they provide ashtrays on the balcony. |
Originally Posted by Nuhusky
(Post 31469795)
Smoking should just be banned period at all hotels regardless of balcony or not as a non smoker nothing pisses me off more than walking into a room smelling smoke. I’m sorry but I have zero sympathy for op smoke off property if you must |
Originally Posted by The_Bouncer
(Post 31469191)
B) They incurred the additional expenses, over and above what it would normally cost to clean the room.
Sounds to me like the security was annoyed they had to go up there and so they told someone smoking was going on in the room. Or OP isn't telling us the whole truth and the inside of the room smelled of smoke, thus "per security." |
Originally Posted by The_Bouncer
(Post 31470796)
Ah, but did it require additional cleaning? The OP never mentioned anything about a report from housekeeping or any odour.
Or was it just a knee-jerk, they were smoking therefore they pay, situation? Perfectly fine for the property to assess a fee which roughly covers the costs, lost revenue and administrative hassle of an average situation. |
Originally Posted by Gig103
(Post 31471542)
Who is to say that smoking penalties have to only reflect the actual cost? Why can't there be a punitive measure to it? Also, who is to say that the deep clean doesn't extend past base hours, requiring overtime, or even a night of lost revenue if the room cannot be rented out?
It’s a fee! It’s not a punitive measure nor is it an indemnification for lost revenue or expenses incurred. It’s the price for a service rendered. As long as it is clearly disclosed, the property can set the cleaning fee in whatever amount it feels like. It’s more or less the same as late check-out fees—these aren’t due only if property demonstrates it suffered a loss of revenue or damages due to compensation given to incoming guests or because housekeeping had to be paid overtime. No, guest failed to checkout by 11am, property charges a clearly disclosed late check-out fee, even if the room sat empty for several days afterwards. Same with cleaning fee: property has a fixed fee for deep cleaning a non-smoking room where smoke was detected. It’s the price they charge for that service, regardless of any mark up in relation to the actual cost of the cleaning operations. |
Originally Posted by writerguyfl
(Post 31471140)
No hotel is going to deep clean a room
Even if the room reeked, all a hotel does to clean is pop a high powered ozone generator in the room for a couple hours. |
So here's some more thoughts....
There were 4 of us on the balcony and who shared one joint. While this is apparently not permitted by state law, this is not what we were being charged with. While I did participate in this activity, I am absolutely not a smoker. I think I've smoked probably 10 cigarettes in my life and marijuana even less often. I absolutely do understand how the smell of smoke can permeate. There is absolutely no way that the room required any deep cleaning. By the time security showed up we had long finished smoking. Had I lied they would have never been able to prove that we had smoked on their balcony as their was no evidence. Security was annoyed because they insisted we surrender all of our marijuana but we had none to surrender. Anyone on here can make whatever assumptions they want about what actually happened that night, but because nobody here has any say in the final outcome of this, I see no reason why I should lie. We were very quiet and it wasn't even 10PM. |
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