Interesting Bloomberg Report/Theory on Marriott Woes Driving HHonors Enrollments
Feb 18, 2019, 12:46 pm
#76
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: RDU
Programs: DL DM, HHonors Diamond, Marriott Platinum, etc etc etc
Posts: 2,341
Personally, I think it was thought out, deliberate and unlikely to really cause them any large push back from customers. First, legacy Marriott Rewards didn't have any guaranteed late checkout for any elites. What Marriott has done now is a compromise that gives a previously enjoyed benefit to their "best" legacy SPG members (i.e. Plats), as well as, adding a new guarantee to the legacy Marriott Rewards Gold and higher elites (which equates to the new Bonvoy Plat and above levels.) So they have added a new benefit probably to their larger elite base (Marriott Rewards members) while limiting the likely pushback legacy Marriott hotels had with adding this new benefit (by limiting it to the Bonvoy top 3 elite levels).
I just don't see that as a "mistake" and doubt they will change it to include the new Bonvoy Gold levels as there are too many elites with that level, but I've been wrong before and I'm sure I will be again. So who knows.
I'm not following you on this. The old SPG Gold level never had guaranteed lounge access and the old Marriott Rewards Gold level is now the Bonvoy Plat level. So the same people that had lounge access before have it now. I do guess there was a short period of time where having SPG Gold translated to Marriott Gold, but that was never implied nor intended to be a long-term benefit.
And if you are saying bonvoy to the Marriott Bonvoy program and going with IHG or Hyatt instead, I do hope that works out for you. But IHG now has 50K/night hotels that a few years ago were only 15K points (and there was no 1:3 translations or anything like that in there.) I used to use IHG as my secondary program, but their rate increases while limiting some of their bonus opportunities and all the while providing virtually NO real elite benefits and limiting award room availability, I've had to look elsewhere. And while Hyatt has some nice benefits, good hotel coverage where I tend to travel isn't one of them. So they are a niche player for me.
I just don't see that as a "mistake" and doubt they will change it to include the new Bonvoy Gold levels as there are too many elites with that level, but I've been wrong before and I'm sure I will be again. So who knows.
I'm not following you on this. The old SPG Gold level never had guaranteed lounge access and the old Marriott Rewards Gold level is now the Bonvoy Plat level. So the same people that had lounge access before have it now. I do guess there was a short period of time where having SPG Gold translated to Marriott Gold, but that was never implied nor intended to be a long-term benefit.
And if you are saying bonvoy to the Marriott Bonvoy program and going with IHG or Hyatt instead, I do hope that works out for you. But IHG now has 50K/night hotels that a few years ago were only 15K points (and there was no 1:3 translations or anything like that in there.) I used to use IHG as my secondary program, but their rate increases while limiting some of their bonus opportunities and all the while providing virtually NO real elite benefits and limiting award room availability, I've had to look elsewhere. And while Hyatt has some nice benefits, good hotel coverage where I tend to travel isn't one of them. So they are a niche player for me.
I had Marriott gold before the transition.
Feb 19, 2019, 3:29 pm
#77
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 592
I wonder if this will be the long-term legacy of the merger? All these years later, in spite of being a 1.5MM flyer w/ UA, they no longer hold any special place of preference in my travel pattern. Whereas I used to go to extreme lengths to stay at least Star Alliance if not UA outright, these days I book whatever looks like the best fit for the given point A->B requirement at hand.
Feb 19, 2019, 7:29 pm
#78
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: IAH / HOU
Programs: UA GS, DL-Plat, Hilton Gold, IHG Platinum, Hyatt Somethingist, Marriott Titanium Lifetime
Posts: 2,853
Given the reported size of the rewards customer base before, the 14 MM number for new members sounds totally unrealistic. I do believe Hilton has picked up business from previously SPG loyal customers, but that number just doesn't seem plausible.
I think the Marriott - SPG merger is suffering from the same issue as the United - Continental merger, namely that each of the combining brands' loyal customers valued something totally different and the companies themselves operated on entirely different principles of how they should manage their customer relationships. There is no good way to combine elite pools and create a new product that makes everyone happy without becoming totally uncompetitive on costs given those limitations. Personally I was previously loyal to Marriott, and valued their reliability and consistency, even though most properties were a bit boring. Now the properties are still boring and they are less consistent and less reliable in their service delivery than before. If I didn't dislike Hilton so much I might stay there more often. But I have moved more stays to IHG, which is even less consistent than the degraded Marriott but has a few good properties in the cities I visit often. I had a huge service failure with Marriott shortly after their systems were combined and they gave me half off a $1000+ stay and 100,000 points as service recovery, so I'm inclined to give them another chance.
I think the Marriott - SPG merger is suffering from the same issue as the United - Continental merger, namely that each of the combining brands' loyal customers valued something totally different and the companies themselves operated on entirely different principles of how they should manage their customer relationships. There is no good way to combine elite pools and create a new product that makes everyone happy without becoming totally uncompetitive on costs given those limitations. Personally I was previously loyal to Marriott, and valued their reliability and consistency, even though most properties were a bit boring. Now the properties are still boring and they are less consistent and less reliable in their service delivery than before. If I didn't dislike Hilton so much I might stay there more often. But I have moved more stays to IHG, which is even less consistent than the degraded Marriott but has a few good properties in the cities I visit often. I had a huge service failure with Marriott shortly after their systems were combined and they gave me half off a $1000+ stay and 100,000 points as service recovery, so I'm inclined to give them another chance.
Feb 20, 2019, 5:56 am
#79
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Washington, DC
Programs: United Premier 1K 1MM; AA Plat Pro; Hyatt Globalist; Marriott Platinum; Avis President's Club
Posts: 2,529
I have no reason to doubt that many people are fed up with the length and problems with the Marriott-SPG merger. It has been mishandled in a number of ways and customer service has been sorely lacking. I think former SPG elites noticed the customer service change the most because I never found Marriott Rewards folks to be particularly helpful whereas I always felt SPG customer service would go the extra mile especially as a Platinum member (even when I was Gold). While the merger between Marriott and SPG has been challenged I'm not sure it's as bad as the UA-Continental merger, at least yet. I feel Marriott understands the problems and challenges and things have changed especially with how they handled the database hack.
That said, and being a bit Machiavellian, if that many people have left Marriott to Hilton that is more reason to stick with Marriott because I suspect they'll take efforts to win people back and reward current loyalty. Maybe I'm wrong but I like to take a long view on loyalty and I've found sticking with UA-CO, even after all their problems, has paid off as the program has improved over the years.
That said, and being a bit Machiavellian, if that many people have left Marriott to Hilton that is more reason to stick with Marriott because I suspect they'll take efforts to win people back and reward current loyalty. Maybe I'm wrong but I like to take a long view on loyalty and I've found sticking with UA-CO, even after all their problems, has paid off as the program has improved over the years.
Feb 20, 2019, 6:16 am
#80
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: CT/ Germany - Ich spreche deutsch
Programs: UA 1K, Bonvoy LTTE, HH Dia, HY Expl
Posts: 4,657
As for the database hack, IMHO they blamed SPG and then sort of swept the issue under the rug. That was essentially the least they could do to avoid a huge PR issue that would immediately devalue their investment in Starwood.
I'm somewhat hopeful there is a light at the end of the tunnel BUT in the meantime I am looking elsewhere and finding that maybe it's not always greener on the other side but there are some bright green spots. The big issue is...before with SPG I likely would not have looked anywhere else to begin with.
Feb 20, 2019, 6:26 am
#81
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: ORD
Programs: UA Silver, Marriott Platinum/LT Platinum, Hilton Gold
Posts: 5,594
I'm somewhat hopeful there is a light at the end of the tunnel BUT in the meantime I am looking elsewhere and finding that maybe it's not always greener on the other side but there are some bright green spots. The big issue is...before with SPG I likely would not have looked anywhere else to begin with.
The premise of this thread has nothing to do with people shifting stays away from Marriott. That's a fun discussion too, but nothing to do with the Bloomberg report.
Feb 20, 2019, 6:28 am
#82
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: CT/ Germany - Ich spreche deutsch
Programs: UA 1K, Bonvoy LTTE, HH Dia, HY Expl
Posts: 4,657
NO and I posted up thread that the real topic we should be discussing on FT is how many people are booking away from Marriott. I agree that probably everyone here had a membership to HH to begin with. I guess I can't post anything a little off topic....the main point of my post was to comment on mh3265a's comment...not to lead the discussion astray.
Last edited by christianj; Feb 20, 2019 at 6:33 am
Feb 20, 2019, 6:43 am
#83
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Washington, DC
Programs: United Premier 1K 1MM; AA Plat Pro; Hyatt Globalist; Marriott Platinum; Avis President's Club
Posts: 2,529
I'm not sure I agree! I think they understand the problems and challenges but I do not think they have handled them well at all. A simple email to the members saying "we know there are issues that are inconveniencing you and we are working on it and anticipate it to be resolved by XYZ date" would have gone a long way. Instead they acted like nothing was wrong and then referred to the complaints about all the issues as "noise around the edges!" I know for a fact I spent several hours on hold with the elite lines trying to sort simple issues that should have been easily resolved.
As for the database hack, IMHO they blamed SPG and then sort of swept the issue under the rug. That was essentially the least they could do to avoid a huge PR issue that would immediately devalue their investment in Starwood.
I'm somewhat hopeful there is a light at the end of the tunnel BUT in the meantime I am looking elsewhere and finding that maybe it's not always greener on the other side but there are some bright green spots. The big issue is...before with SPG I likely would not have looked anywhere else to begin with.
As for the database hack, IMHO they blamed SPG and then sort of swept the issue under the rug. That was essentially the least they could do to avoid a huge PR issue that would immediately devalue their investment in Starwood.
I'm somewhat hopeful there is a light at the end of the tunnel BUT in the meantime I am looking elsewhere and finding that maybe it's not always greener on the other side but there are some bright green spots. The big issue is...before with SPG I likely would not have looked anywhere else to begin with.
In regards to the database hack they did blame SPG but they set up a call center and did notify folks. Was it perfect - NO - but better than any private firm that has encountered this level of a hack.
I do agree with you that's it not always greener on the other side. Many people left UA-CO during the merger and went to AA but regretted that decision once AA merged with US Airways. I think Hilton has led the devaluation bandwagon so I would be cautious about moving. I think Hyatt is a better program right now but they are too small given the type of travel I have in business now.
Feb 20, 2019, 8:13 am
#84
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: ORD
Programs: UA Silver, Marriott Platinum/LT Platinum, Hilton Gold
Posts: 5,594
NO and I posted up thread that the real topic we should be discussing on FT is how many people are booking away from Marriott. I agree that probably everyone here had a membership to HH to begin with. I guess I can't post anything a little off topic....the main point of my post was to comment on mh3265a's comment...not to lead the discussion astray.
I was just trying to make the point that it would be helpful if someone had some data, whether real Marriott data or even anecdotal about opening new accounts with Hilton or how Marriott's new account openings compare. Otherwise, this just becomes another thread about how people are upset about the merger.
Feb 20, 2019, 8:33 am
#85
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: CT/ Germany - Ich spreche deutsch
Programs: UA 1K, Bonvoy LTTE, HH Dia, HY Expl
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Feb 20, 2019, 12:56 pm
#86
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: check swarm
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Posts: 14,404
you can mock the water all you want but its important to me; my Ambassador and the Ambassador database knows that I prefer 2+ bottles of mineral water in my room. I've lost track of how many stays I've had at SPG/Marriott hotels where there is no water. Using my Hilton Gold status, since it's a defined benefit, my track record for getting or having 2 bottles of water delivered is far higher than Bonvoid. It's a small, but real reason I've been exploring Hilton more and more.
Feb 20, 2019, 9:08 pm
#88
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: SLC/HEL/Anywhere with a Beach
Programs: Marriott Ambassador; AA EXP 3MM; AS MVP, Hilton Gold, CH-47/UH-60/C-23/C-130 VET
Posts: 5,234
you can mock the water all you want but its important to me; my Ambassador and the Ambassador database knows that I prefer 2+ bottles of mineral water in my room. I've lost track of how many stays I've had at SPG/Marriott hotels where there is no water. Using my Hilton Gold status, since it's a defined benefit, my track record for getting or having 2 bottles of water delivered is far higher than Bonvoid. It's a small, but real reason I've been exploring Hilton more and more.
Of course, keep in mind that legacy SPG leadership had an initiative to remove bottled water from SPG properties.
Hilton offers me the two bottles of water when I check in but it is standard, not mineral water. I suspect that Hilton will phase out the bottled water sometime soon based on their environmental initiatives.
Feb 20, 2019, 9:34 pm
#89
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: SNA
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Feb 21, 2019, 5:57 am
#90
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: CT/ Germany - Ich spreche deutsch
Programs: UA 1K, Bonvoy LTTE, HH Dia, HY Expl
Posts: 4,657
To each his/her own but IMHO it at the very least acknowledges the problems which is something they haven't really done up to this point. Back on topic now.