Which brands from Mariott are ultra luxury?
Nov 19, 2018, 12:06 pm
#76
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one easy example of quantifying service
operating cost is 100
divided by 100 rooms = 1 per room
divided by 10 rooms = 10 per room
many on FT seem to ignore owner/manager costs (and location's supply & demand)
credits >
things given to some guests should not be counted under 'general' hotel operations
some of us choose not to receive credits when it requires using agent
for example i paid for spa treatments rather than receiving free via agent
credits are absolutely not used by all those who receive, thats why theyre offered
they are designed to gain additional revenue, often at spa but also F&B, golf, etc
best value is for business travelers on 1 night stays in less expensive hotels
no logic in not encouraging higher spend & not encouraging booking higher room
operating cost is 100
divided by 100 rooms = 1 per room
divided by 10 rooms = 10 per room
many on FT seem to ignore owner/manager costs (and location's supply & demand)
credits >
things given to some guests should not be counted under 'general' hotel operations
some of us choose not to receive credits when it requires using agent
for example i paid for spa treatments rather than receiving free via agent
credits are absolutely not used by all those who receive, thats why theyre offered
they are designed to gain additional revenue, often at spa but also F&B, golf, etc
best value is for business travelers on 1 night stays in less expensive hotels
no logic in not encouraging higher spend & not encouraging booking higher room
Last edited by Kagehitokiri; Nov 19, 2018 at 12:13 pm
Nov 19, 2018, 12:20 pm
#77
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: New York
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one easy example of quantifying service
operating cost is 100
divided by 100 rooms = 1 per room
divided by 10 rooms = 10 per room
many on FT seem to ignore owner/manager costs (and location's supply & demand)
credits >
things given to some guests should not be counted under 'general' hotel operations
some of us choose not to receive credits when it requires using agent
for example i paid for spa treatments rather than receiving free via agent
credits are absolutely not used by all those who receive, that is why they are offered
they are designed to create additional revenue, often at spa but also F&B, golf, etc
operating cost is 100
divided by 100 rooms = 1 per room
divided by 10 rooms = 10 per room
many on FT seem to ignore owner/manager costs (and location's supply & demand)
credits >
things given to some guests should not be counted under 'general' hotel operations
some of us choose not to receive credits when it requires using agent
for example i paid for spa treatments rather than receiving free via agent
credits are absolutely not used by all those who receive, that is why they are offered
they are designed to create additional revenue, often at spa but also F&B, golf, etc
Last edited by rny321; Nov 19, 2018 at 12:29 pm
Nov 19, 2018, 12:30 pm
#78
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title of thread is "ultra luxury"
a nice hard product with no service is not really a hotel (hospitality / service industry) operation
service is not limited to amenities
a nice hard product with no service is not really a hotel (hospitality / service industry) operation
service is not limited to amenities
Last edited by Kagehitokiri; Nov 19, 2018 at 12:37 pm
Nov 19, 2018, 12:31 pm
#79
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Nobody said it was. How we value certain of those service will vary based on individual preferences.
Nov 19, 2018, 12:38 pm
#80
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there is a quantifiable value (literal $ figure) that is separate from perceived value.
better example is housekeeping, from none to every time a guest is out of room.
can see details in lawsuits by owners against upscale hotel management brands
if ultra luxury is operating at a loss, the room rate is not "overpriced" etc
examples of good quotes on service: founders of four seasons and amanresorts
clarifying my opinions - no ultra luxury brands, ultra luxury pretty much not found in cities. separately re brands in general, not really any significant brand standards today.
al maha does not resemble a hotel, that is valued by some, possibly ultra luxury
there are several luxury hotel brands with one outlier that is similar to al maha
better example is housekeeping, from none to every time a guest is out of room.
can see details in lawsuits by owners against upscale hotel management brands
if ultra luxury is operating at a loss, the room rate is not "overpriced" etc
examples of good quotes on service: founders of four seasons and amanresorts
clarifying my opinions - no ultra luxury brands, ultra luxury pretty much not found in cities. separately re brands in general, not really any significant brand standards today.
al maha does not resemble a hotel, that is valued by some, possibly ultra luxury
there are several luxury hotel brands with one outlier that is similar to al maha
Last edited by Kagehitokiri; Nov 19, 2018 at 12:56 pm
Nov 19, 2018, 1:11 pm
#81
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there is a quantifiable value (literal $ figure) that is separate from perceived value.
better example is housekeeping, from none to every time a guest is out of room.
can see details in lawsuits by owners against upscale hotel management brands
if ultra luxury is operating at a loss, the room rate is not "overpriced" etc
examples of good quotes on service: founders of four seasons and amanresorts
clarifying my opinions - no ultra luxury brands, ultra luxury pretty much not found in cities. separately re brands in general, not really any significant brand standards today.
al maha does not resemble a hotel, that is valued by some, possibly ultra luxury
there are several luxury hotel brands with one outlier that is similar to al maha
better example is housekeeping, from none to every time a guest is out of room.
can see details in lawsuits by owners against upscale hotel management brands
if ultra luxury is operating at a loss, the room rate is not "overpriced" etc
examples of good quotes on service: founders of four seasons and amanresorts
clarifying my opinions - no ultra luxury brands, ultra luxury pretty much not found in cities. separately re brands in general, not really any significant brand standards today.
al maha does not resemble a hotel, that is valued by some, possibly ultra luxury
there are several luxury hotel brands with one outlier that is similar to al maha
Nov 19, 2018, 1:22 pm
#82
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We’ve had many stays at the Halkin by COMO in London. We love the hotel, as long as we stayed in non entry level rooms. The top floor COMO Suites and even the Belgravia Suites are among our favorites in London, and we particularly love the quiet street location so close to the action and Tube access.
I understand. In Marrakech, we also plan to stay at Royal Mansour; even the Amanjena isn’t as unique and special like RM. In India, we stayed in Oberoi and Taj properties that were far more unique than the larger ITC Luxury Collection properties available in the legacy SPG portfolio. But in Mumbai, I’ll certainly consider the StR because I’m such a fan of the StR brand standard butler service.
Wherever there is a StR or top Luxury Collection hotel option (and now perhaps a Ritz Carlton, too), I’ll always measure the cost/benefit of my Ambassador status and elite perks there against the true luxury level and distinction of any other unique or standout luxury property, whether it’s from another luxury chain or independent. In Sydney, we stayed ar the Park Hyatt because it’s undeniaby the best hotel in town AND offered an amazing cost/benefit. In New Delhi, we stayed at the Lodhi because it was more modern and Aman-ish and worth the premium for us (and the ITC was too large for our tastes). In most locations, there are no Royal Mansour-like options...at least not to my mind. In Tokyo, I was very glad to enjoy the amazing cost/benefit and tremendous service of the Prince Gallery over the outrageous cost and subpar service record of the Aman Tokyo. In Kyoto, I was most happy at the Suiran Luxury Collection property on the outskirts of Arashiyama, even though we had an incredible cost/benefit stay at the RC Kyoto across town, too.
No doubt, unique properties like Al Maha, Suiran Kyoto, Imperial Vienna, etc offer wonderful chances for amazing luxury stays in unique environments. That’s one of the best things about Marriott’s Luxury Collection. There’s nothing else quite like it.
Nov 19, 2018, 1:38 pm
#83
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Nov 19, 2018, 1:42 pm
#84
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Nov 19, 2018, 1:54 pm
#85
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The Tambo del Inka was fantastic. I picked the Palacio del Inka in Cusco based on price and brand perception. Although I did not stay in the JW, I had meetings there. I was impressed with every aspect of the Palacio del Inka, but in this instance the JW was superior to the LC option.
Nov 19, 2018, 1:54 pm
#86
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Value comes from many places. Small room count on a large site are probably a requisite for ultra luxe, but that's just me.
Nov 19, 2018, 2:01 pm
#87
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In this modern world, where "hell is other people", privacy is highly prized by some. At Royal Mansour, just having a huge pool with a maximum of 10 other people, spread over a space of half a football field was definitely a plus for me and I was happy to pay for this. I stayed at the Waldorf in Ras Al Khaimah a year or so ago, and though I'm sure the hard product (and service) was magnificent, it was impossible to tell because of the crowds......
Value comes from many places. Small room count on a large site are probably a requisite for ultra luxe, but that's just me.
Value comes from many places. Small room count on a large site are probably a requisite for ultra luxe, but that's just me.
Nov 19, 2018, 2:18 pm
#88
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Let’s bring the discussion back to the topic of which brands qualify as luxury or ultra luxury in the Marriott portfolio.
I think it’s quite clear that most agree that St Regis, Ritz Carlton, and Luxury Collection qualify as luxury brands in the Marriott Loyalty Program—even as only a subset of each of those will qualify as ultra luxury based on whatever that might mean for each individual. As with almost all luxury brands, there are a few examples that are of questionable luxury status.
The Luxury Collection soft brand, in particular, includes properties that most seem to agree are ultra luxury, luxury, and a subset that don’t quite qualify as luxury.
I think it’s quite clear that most would agree that Ritz Carlton Reserve and Bulgari brands qualify as luxury. I’d go as far as to say that some properties qualify as ultra luxury. But these don’t participate in the Marriott Loyalty Program, so we aren’t focused on those in this discussion.
I think it’s quite clear that few see W and Edition as quite comparable luxury brands, even as a small subset of those qualify as luxury properties.
I think it’s quite clear that almost no one sees JW Marriott as a luxury brand even close to those above, even as a few newer JW properties might look the part. Their total room count almost always precludes JW Marriott from being considered a luxury brand in the same sense as any of the others above.
Nov 19, 2018, 3:16 pm
#89
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(... and I'm serious- I'm just surprised, is all- considering all the places you two have been I'm surprised a "chain" hotel in a major city like SYD ranks that highly)
Nov 19, 2018, 3:25 pm
#90
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I'm late to this party, but when I think of "ultra luxury", I think of the top 100 or so hotels in the world, many of which are boutiques or the very top specimens of the best luxury brands in the world.
Maybe a few Marriott-affiliated hotels on there, but I think of the bulk of the StR, Ritz, LC, etc. brands as simply "luxury".
I think of JW, W, etc. as "upscale", or maybe "upper upscale".
Yes, I'm aware that hotel brands themselves like to inflate their own classifications to the point where they're calling Courtyards "upscale".
But since ultra-luxe is nebulous, I would personally gatekeep it pretty hard. Really unique, one-of-a-kind experiences (that also meet all of the definitions of "luxury") only.
Maybe a few Marriott-affiliated hotels on there, but I think of the bulk of the StR, Ritz, LC, etc. brands as simply "luxury".
I think of JW, W, etc. as "upscale", or maybe "upper upscale".
Yes, I'm aware that hotel brands themselves like to inflate their own classifications to the point where they're calling Courtyards "upscale".
But since ultra-luxe is nebulous, I would personally gatekeep it pretty hard. Really unique, one-of-a-kind experiences (that also meet all of the definitions of "luxury") only.