Which brands from Mariott are ultra luxury?
Nov 13, 2018, 4:21 am
#16
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I had the pleasure of trying out two Ritz Carltons in the last couple months. My first two Ritz Carltons ever. And I am left a tad 'confused', if not flat out disappointed at the brand. Sure, I have only had two stays, but I would argue you can observe a lot in two stays, especially if you are an keen observer of hotels like me.
I always held Ritz Carlton and its brand name on par with the likes of St Regis and Park Hyatt - i.e. top luxury hotels within a chain brand that is, in a way, a trophy brand of the chain altogether. Whilst I see that the RC hotels are definitely upscale, the two RCs came across to me like glorified Sheratons with no distinctive character or 'color'.
There are distinctive features that define the top hotels within their respective chains. I'll take St Regis as an example as it is the one luxury brand I now well. This brand with its butler service and evening champagne sabering, association with Bentley and the Red Snapper etc. If I were to wake up unknowingly in a St. Regis hotel lobby one day, I would be able to make a reasonable guess that it would be a St Regis simply by observing. There are distinctive styles and features that define the St Regis brand and there is a thread of consistency across its global footprint.
Not so with RC. The two hotels were widely different. The check-in area was the stand-up counter type and was clogged in both hotels (more so in Dubai). Rooms were great, but did not exude the bespoke luxury as you would at Park Hyatt or Waldorf. Phone operators were standard if not a bit terse. As a platinum welcome amenity I was offered a choice between a bottle of sparkling water, or a "fruit shake". A fruit basket and a half bottle of Shiraz in Singapore. Turn-down service had to be requested in Dubai to be done. I can go on.
Don't get me wrong - I am not saying that the hotels were bad pre se, but as the 'trophy' brand of the Marriott family I expected more character - something distinctive that can capture the brand. I did not get it. They felt like two good hotels unrelated to one another with efficient service and friendly staff. For those who have stayed in RCs over the years - particularly those who prefer it to other luxury hotel names - what is it about the brand you find about RCs that you like? How does a RC differ from, say, Raffles or Park Hyatt or St Regis?
I always held Ritz Carlton and its brand name on par with the likes of St Regis and Park Hyatt - i.e. top luxury hotels within a chain brand that is, in a way, a trophy brand of the chain altogether. Whilst I see that the RC hotels are definitely upscale, the two RCs came across to me like glorified Sheratons with no distinctive character or 'color'.
There are distinctive features that define the top hotels within their respective chains. I'll take St Regis as an example as it is the one luxury brand I now well. This brand with its butler service and evening champagne sabering, association with Bentley and the Red Snapper etc. If I were to wake up unknowingly in a St. Regis hotel lobby one day, I would be able to make a reasonable guess that it would be a St Regis simply by observing. There are distinctive styles and features that define the St Regis brand and there is a thread of consistency across its global footprint.
Not so with RC. The two hotels were widely different. The check-in area was the stand-up counter type and was clogged in both hotels (more so in Dubai). Rooms were great, but did not exude the bespoke luxury as you would at Park Hyatt or Waldorf. Phone operators were standard if not a bit terse. As a platinum welcome amenity I was offered a choice between a bottle of sparkling water, or a "fruit shake". A fruit basket and a half bottle of Shiraz in Singapore. Turn-down service had to be requested in Dubai to be done. I can go on.
Don't get me wrong - I am not saying that the hotels were bad pre se, but as the 'trophy' brand of the Marriott family I expected more character - something distinctive that can capture the brand. I did not get it. They felt like two good hotels unrelated to one another with efficient service and friendly staff. For those who have stayed in RCs over the years - particularly those who prefer it to other luxury hotel names - what is it about the brand you find about RCs that you like? How does a RC differ from, say, Raffles or Park Hyatt or St Regis?
I think that’s pretty cheap for a luxury chain that places itself on par with four seasons and the likes.
Nov 13, 2018, 5:26 am
#17
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In the past, RC did have more of a brand image IME. Many of them had traditional furnishings, with lots of mahogany wood, floral prints (and different fabrics in different rooms), Chinese lamps, etc. Indeed, I remember walking past some upscale hotel where I somehow didn't see the sign and immediately guessing that it was a RC. This might have been in Seoul about fifteen or twenty years ago. Another part of the image was the dress code even at resorts (Amelia Island, for example, was very explicit about dress codes for kids of different ages) and all the references to staff as "the ladies and gentlemen of the RC".
Currently, I think of RC as a luxury chain with very good (but expensive) club lounges, although few properties have distinct club floors (versus just selling regular rooms with lounge access) and some of course some don't have the lounge. IMO there are some that shouldn't be RCs, such as the deflagged one outside of Kansas City or the one near the Wash U campus on the edge of St Louis. Toronto before renovation had ratty (old, faded, worn, not truly rat infested AFAIK) suites. The relatively new one in Boston seems soulless compared to the iconic historic (but somewhat ratty too) building on the park at Newberry Street which IIRC is now a Taj.
BTW I wouldn't describe JW as a luxury brand with a lounge but rather a somewhat pretentious (they seem to think they're a lot better than they really are) and more expensive version of a regular city Marriott.
Currently, I think of RC as a luxury chain with very good (but expensive) club lounges, although few properties have distinct club floors (versus just selling regular rooms with lounge access) and some of course some don't have the lounge. IMO there are some that shouldn't be RCs, such as the deflagged one outside of Kansas City or the one near the Wash U campus on the edge of St Louis. Toronto before renovation had ratty (old, faded, worn, not truly rat infested AFAIK) suites. The relatively new one in Boston seems soulless compared to the iconic historic (but somewhat ratty too) building on the park at Newberry Street which IIRC is now a Taj.
BTW I wouldn't describe JW as a luxury brand with a lounge but rather a somewhat pretentious (they seem to think they're a lot better than they really are) and more expensive version of a regular city Marriott.
Nov 13, 2018, 6:13 am
#18
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In the rooms, IME JW has the furniture & aesthetic regular Marriotts should have renovated to using, instead of the AC-like design (which I like for ACs personally).
Nov 13, 2018, 1:46 pm
#19
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I consider JW as high end of full service business hotels, not as luxury hotels. My recent JW stays were JW Shenzhen and JW Shanghai Tomorrow Square in September. Both are nice enough, but definitely not luxury like St. Regis Florence..
Nov 13, 2018, 6:49 pm
#21
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At this point, I'm tempted to say none of the Starriott brands qualify, as a luxury hotel would never require an elite guest to waste a day due to its own IT mess. Luxury means "don't worry, we'll take care of it, and immediately confirm everything in writing for you" and not "good luck as a CIP customer reaching your assigned contact and BTW please don't have any expectations that out website will actually work to entitle you so do simple operations with a minimum of hassle and inefficiency due to our own IT issues."
Nov 13, 2018, 9:37 pm
#22
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At this point, I'm tempted to say none of the Starriott brands qualify, as a luxury hotel would never require an elite guest to waste a day due to its own IT mess. Luxury means "don't worry, we'll take care of it, and immediately confirm everything in writing for you" and not "good luck as a CIP customer reaching your assigned contact and BTW please don't have any expectations that out website will actually work to entitle you so do simple operations with a minimum of hassle and inefficiency due to our own IT issues."
Cheers.
Nov 14, 2018, 2:22 am
#23
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Definitely Ritz and St. Regis.
Luxury Collection can really be variable. They're all nice, but maybe not at the level you're talking about.
I've only stayed at one JW (in L.A.), and that one in particular is not a 5-star property. I can't speak for the rest of the brand.
Luxury Collection can really be variable. They're all nice, but maybe not at the level you're talking about.
I've only stayed at one JW (in L.A.), and that one in particular is not a 5-star property. I can't speak for the rest of the brand.
They told me I have been upgraded to the next category room (but definite not a suite). No bath tube. No coffee machine. No tea in room.
Nov 14, 2018, 2:31 am
#24
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However , I couldn’t agree more that the St Regis Washington DC is quite disappointing—and I think everyone knows I’m a huge fan of St Regis. I was there for Easter weekend two years ago and despised its outdated room decor and furnishings. The air con/HVAC needs a complete overhaul. But the service was truly poor for a St Regis. From front desk to restaurant to in-room dining to management, too many seemed truly oblivious. The only saving grace was a visiting manager from my favorite StR San Francisco, whom I already knew well, who helped obviate the man service fails and tries to salvage the stay. Still, I’ve never returned nor do I plan to return until the hotel gets the facelift it so desperately requires—both with room/suite/public spaces renovation and a new management team.
Nov 14, 2018, 2:48 am
#25
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First, Platinum benefits do not in any relate to whether a hotel is a luxury hotel. That’s about the quality of the loyalty program. Second, I don’t believe that there are no Plat benefits here at all. I enjoyed free breakfast and comp’d drinks here, as well as an SNA suite upgrade, early check in, and late checkout. Those are quite nice Plat benefits.
However , I couldn’t agree more that the St Regis Washington DC is quite disappointing—and I think everyone knows I’m a huge fan of St Regis. I was there for Easter weekend two years ago and despised its outdated room decor and furnishings. The air con/HVAC needs a complete overhaul. But the service was truly poor for a St Regis. From front desk to restaurant to in-room dining to management, too many seemed truly oblivious. The only saving grace was a visiting manager from my favorite StR San Francisco, whom I already knew well, who helped obviate the man service fails and tries to salvage the stay. Still, I’ve never returned nor do I plan to return until the hotel gets the facelift it so desperately requires—both with room/suite/public spaces renovation and a new management team.
I do not stay in St R very often. I think St R DC was my second St R stays. But St R DC gave me a very bad impression of St R brand. The room I stayed which they told me was upgraded has no bath tube, no lounge which means no free breakfast. I wonder why someone will pay for USD400/night.
Nov 14, 2018, 9:32 am
#26
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Ok. yes, it may be 2 different things.....
I do not stay in St R very often. I think St R DC was my second St R stays. But St R DC gave me a very bad impression of St R brand. The room I stayed which they told me was upgraded has no bath tube, no lounge which means no free breakfast. I wonder why someone will pay for USD400/night.
I do not stay in St R very often. I think St R DC was my second St R stays. But St R DC gave me a very bad impression of St R brand. The room I stayed which they told me was upgraded has no bath tube, no lounge which means no free breakfast. I wonder why someone will pay for USD400/night.
I stay at St Regis hotels quite often. As I mentioned below, the Washington DC property needs a major facelift. But St Regis as a brand is truly luxury. Every brand has a weak link or two, as I mentioned already and as everyone knows. Even Peninsula has Beiing and Tokyo with weaker service and (for Tokyo) quote dated decor and facilities. Four Seasons has Sydney and Westlake Village and Milan needing major facelifts. St Regis has Washington and some might even say Houston. Older brands have older hotels. Washington was the 2nd St Regis ever.
Last edited by bhrubin; Nov 14, 2018 at 9:38 am
Nov 14, 2018, 9:49 am
#27
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You’ree unfortunately wrong about no lounge meaning no free breakfast at any St Regis. At StR and Luxury Collection and W (and the rest of the bulk of legacy SPG brands), the free breakfast is provided in the actual hotel restaurant—and it’s a much nicer breakfast offered than anything in any lounge.
Are you telling me that St R DC cheated me by not offering free breakfast as part of Plat benefit?
Nov 14, 2018, 10:47 am
#28
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Nov 14, 2018, 12:40 pm
#29
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St Regis, The Luxury Collections and The Ritz-Carlton supposedly go into Luxury segment.
But some of those (and some Westin) might go above and enter the ultra luxury segment
The Luxury Collections hotel do have very broad range of standard.
From Suiran Kyoto and Al Maha Dubai as best Luxury Collections offering(that I have experienced
), to The Prince Gallery Tokyo and The Athenee Bangkok which is nice but not as great as the previous two .... to pretty average hotel like US Grant.
But some of those (and some Westin) might go above and enter the ultra luxury segment
The Luxury Collections hotel do have very broad range of standard.
From Suiran Kyoto and Al Maha Dubai as best Luxury Collections offering(that I have experienced
), to The Prince Gallery Tokyo and The Athenee Bangkok which is nice but not as great as the previous two .... to pretty average hotel like US Grant.
Nov 14, 2018, 1:47 pm
#30
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St Regis, The Luxury Collections and The Ritz-Carlton supposedly go into Luxury segment.
But some of those (and some Westin) might go above and enter the ultra luxury segment
The Luxury Collections hotel do have very broad range of standard.
From Suiran Kyoto and Al Maha Dubai as best Luxury Collections offering(that I have experienced), to The Prince Gallery Tokyo and The Athenee Bangkok which is nice but not as great as the previous two .... to pretty average hotel like US Grant.
But some of those (and some Westin) might go above and enter the ultra luxury segment
The Luxury Collections hotel do have very broad range of standard.
From Suiran Kyoto and Al Maha Dubai as best Luxury Collections offering(that I have experienced
), to The Prince Gallery Tokyo and The Athenee Bangkok which is nice but not as great as the previous two .... to pretty average hotel like US Grant.I think we’re also getting waylaid by the presumed differences between “luxury” and “ultra luxury” here. It probably isn’t particularly helpful a distinction for the most part. Most Aman and most Peninsula would probably rate as ultra luxury—but not all. Very unique properties such as Mukul, Auberge du Soleil, Las Ventanas, Post Ranch Inn, The Upper House, Cayo Espanto, Cavas Wine Lodge also can qualify.
Most FS don’t qualify as ultra luxury in my book, just as most StR and RC don’t either. The FS Florence does for many, just as the StR Florence does for most. The Gritti does for most just as the Aman Venice does. The FS and StR Punta Mita do, just aa the FS and StR Bora Bora do. The FS Houston and StR Houston don’t, though. The Mandarin Oriental Bangkok is, but the old MO San Francisco (now Loews) and old MO Las Vegas (now Waldorf) never did. Yet they’re all luxury.
Very few Westins qualify as luxury. Those few in Europe that Re conversions from very impressive properties are the best bets in Venice, Rome, Milan, Paris (soon leaving Marriott to become Jumeirah), etc.
Luxury segment is defined by average daily rate. That’s why W, Edition, and even JW are technically qualified as luxury hotels. For purposes of the general luxury discussion, however, few if any of those qualify as what most of us consider true luxury. Coincidentally, W has the higher price point by far over JW (Edition is slightly higher but the sample size is tiny).