msp3

I also recall a thread like this in the Luxury Travel forum on Four Seasons rates...
That's rather unbecoming with this sort of working stiff mindset

yosithezet

SkiAdcock

More upscale. Robust offerings all day, often a chef there, top shelf liquor, etc.

Cheers.

MSPeconomist

My most recent RC experiences were in Asia, so some of this might not be uniformly true in the USA, but RC lounges not only provide free alcohol, but also some fairly top shelf stuff such as XO cognac (but they will give you the VSOP IME if you don't explicitly ask for XO, which I consider to be a cheap and tacky hotel practice). They have a variety of wines, as many as about a half dozen white and a half dozen red choices. There are five food presentations daily: breakfast, light lunch, afternoon tea, appetizers/happy hour, and deserts/after dinner drinks. One has lounge access 24/7, even when the reception desk isn't staffed for a subset of the wines, beer in bottles or cans, and snacks such as cheese and cracker plates, plus chips/nuts/cookies. If you're satisfied without a real sit-down dinner, RC lounges could be considered all inclusive or at least a full board plan including alcohol, although of course you miss the good restaurants in the RC and elsewhere in the city.

hhoope01

I do believe most of them also provide complimentary pressing for a couple of clothing items daily. And some may offer other items as well. For example, the Orlando RC, Grande Lakes has the following:

• 24-hour access to the Club Lounge: snacks and non-alcoholic beverage
• A dedicated concierge team for your individual needs 7 a.m.-10 p.m.
• Five culinary offerings presented throughout the day
• Complimentary pressing daily for two garments per room
• Complimentary Ritz Kids Day Time Programming for three children (ages 4-12) per room
• Media room with movies and classic family games
• Balconies with views of the pool, lake and golf course
• Views of area fireworks and resort holiday fireworks
• Complimentary Wi-Fi access
• Computer stations and printer

“To Go” snacks and beverages are available throughout the day.

bhrubin

To me, a Ritz-Carlton Club is far more extensive and much more luxurious than any lounge or executive lounge found at the upscale hotels that most herein are talking about insofar as Platinum access/benefits. The RC Club is a much more elegant space with beautiful decor, plenty of very nice seating, and premium food and beverage offerings, far and above any lounge I've seen at Marriott, Sheraton, Westin, Le Meridien, or even Luxury Collection properties like the Nines Portland.

I would say that the Prince Gallery Tokyo Kioicho has a lounge that is more like the luxury offering of your typical RC Club. But most lounges don't come close.

The RC Club is far more like a Four Seasons Club or Shangri-La Club, often found at FS and Shangri-La properties in Asia, than anything like the "regular" lounges discussed as Platinum benefits at Marriot and Starwood hotels.

escape4

And how do RC clubs compare with Fairmont Gold lounges?

hhoope01

Found this thread in the Fairmont forum: Fairmont gold

From that thread, it looks like only non-alcoholic drinks are offered and the food offerings seem to be a step down as well. Also, I didn't see "extra" services like free pressing, etc. So I'd say it looks like the Fairmont Gold lounges may be better than most US hotel lounges, but they are still a step or 2 down from the RC lounges. Also note, I tried to read through a few other threads in the Fairmont forum about their Gold Lounges. I noticed comments in a few of those threads about crowds, waiting for tables, people hovering over the food offerings to get them just as they come out, etc. I don't normally see those types of comments with the RC lounges. By not "upgrading" elites or others with Club access, I get the feeling they can tightly control the numbers that have access.

fdem

Really is a CEO going to have the time to beg for lounge access or free breakfast for his extended family. The rich will look at the big picture but I would not think many really wealthy people would be bothered about such trivial matters such as a buffet 3 times a day, in fact the genuinely wealthy probably either rent villas, yachts or if staying at hotels would just order what is convenient via room service. I cannot understand FT's obsession with club lounges. If I am in Hong Kong or Bali I might enjoy a couple of aperatifs in the bar prior to going out and enjoying what the city has to offer and I am not considered especially wealthy. I have stayed at some RCs a while ago and paid for the club access, I noted the worst clients seemed to be parked there permanently trying to get their 'monies worth'. Same with club lounges at legacy spg properties, nice for a glass of wine in the evening but would I eat dinner there? Absolutely not!

escape4

Thanks for the feedback. Actually the main reason I asked the question is because for both RC and Fairmont, Plats do not get lounge access so I thought perhaps there were other similarities.

The non-U.S. Fairmont Gold Lounges I have been to had free alcohol but I have never been to RC lounges so I cannot compare first hand.

MSPeconomist

The Nines had a good lounge when it first became a Starwood, including some very interesting wine offerings as well as creative food presentations.

There are a couple other USA lounges that have been somewhat special in terms of food, although still definitely not comparable to RC lounges or indeed top overseas lounges.

rooivalk

nsummy

Well I am glad to see your ivory tower has an internet connection. One thing many people (usually those with limited means, and not necessarily you) fail to realize is expensive does not equal luxury. There are no shortage of people in this world drinking their $200 bottle of 88 rated wine while the plebs drink a 93 for $30. While you do bring up some valid points, I think the real question is why was Ritz Carlton folded into Marriott and then SPG? If this is supposed to be some exclusive, haughty club where a loyalty program is looked down upon it begs the question, why have one to begin with? The wealthy people who enjoy RC probably don't care about the points, and the point collectors just get upset at the lack of recognition. That said, I think members do have a justified reason to be turned off to this. You said it yourself that you prefer the St Regis. Why exactly has STR managed to offer this recognition but not RC? Is RC that much more exclusive? Same could be said about the Edition Hotels. Are they more exclusive than a W? There was a time in this world when loyalty and business meant you were recognized and rewarded. One thing I have learned in my short time in this world is that the true high end stores and restaurants treat me with the same excellent care if I'm wearing a t-short or shorts. Those that put up an attitude (where the hourly employee thinks he/she is better than you) are fugazis.


P.S. I have never seen a Lux Collection, W, or Edition with a lounge.

bhrubin

Absolutely agreed. Sometimes, a high price reflects more the massive demand relative to supply rather than any better product. But usually, a higher price reflect s a better product--else they wouldn't be able to sell at that price for too long.

First, Marriott bought Ritz-Carlton. Second, Starwood expanded St Regis from its one New York property to a second in Washington, DC, in 1999. Since then, Starwood has expanded the St Regis brand worldwide to immense success. Third, Marriott bough Starwood presumably for some of the same reasons it bought Ritz-Carlton: to have skin in the high demand luxury space, to offer aspirational properties to its members, and to compete against the other luxury brands.

I don't think of luxury brands as necessarily being haughty clubs like you do. I think that perspective often is born of other issues unrelated to this topic, actually. I often say that a person's feelings most often can be attributed first to themselves before others.

Of course, if you don't like luxury brands and/or find them haughty, then you can spare yourself the trouble and not bother to stay at those.

Why have what to begin with? Marriott offers you a choice of so many brands, it's crazy! You don't like the offerings or elite benefits afforded you by the RC brand--then you get to choose one of the other many luxury brands available to you. It's a win win.

Your dislike of the RC brand not offering the same lounge benefit reminds me a lot of how people disdained the addition of the Design Hotels into the SPG loyalty program. They STILL don't offer the same breadth of benefits even now that the loyalty programs are merged. To me, the Design Hotels offer additional options that are quite distinct from the rest of SPG/Marriott--so I can choose to stay at them if I like but get fewer benefits, or I can stay elsewhere for the better benefits. It's the same for lounge access and RC.

Ironically, I chose the Atlantis by Giardino Design Hotel in Zurich over the Marriott Autograph Kameha Grand Zurich for our stay in Oct. Both look to be quite nice hotels, but I liked the more luxurious ambience and the location of the Atlantis. I give up the ability to get upgraded or recognized as an Ambassador guest or free breakfast at the Atlantis. But I decided that tradeoff was worth it for us for that stay. You might choose otherwise. How nice it is that both of us have options that might better suit us?

We are very comfortable and yet care plenty about points and status. I don't accept your premise at all. Being wealthy doesn't preclude caring about points and status.

People feel justified about a lot of things! People are entitled to feel any way they like for themselves. It's when they project their feelings and assume those must be true for most people or everyone that people begin to get themselves into trouble, I think.

St Regis does not have a Club benefit as part of its brand standard. Most St Regis properties don't offer a lounge/club at all (except for some exceptions in Asia, where clubs/lounges are more common in the luxury space).

Ritz-Carlton is one of the progenitors of a luxury Club at a 5* luxury hotel and has a Club as a brand standard for most (but not all) of its properties. That standard, whether people want to accept it or not, is a massively far cry from the lounges/executive lounges seen at Sheraton, Marriott, and similar business-centric hotels. It isn't even close. Ritz-Carlton uses those Clubs as a massive profit center--people pay up to $200-300 per day for the ability to use and access those Clubs and the often extra privileges that come with Club access. It isn't the same. That's why Ritz-Carlton owners likely won't give that up.

If you don't like that choice, then you get to vote with your wallet by not staying at Ritz-Carlton hotels. I don't think they will miss you, I'm afraid.

I don't ever like lounges, so I also don't care much about the Ritz-Carlton Club. But I absolutely can understand the reasons for Ritz-Carlton Club access not being a guaranteed benefit for Platinum guests. Some RC properties still may elect to offer the upgrade to Club access at their discretion, of course.

I am uncertain what this has to do with the topic at hand, but IMO an Edition hotel is nothing more than a slightly more neighborhood-feeling W hotel. I've stayed at many W hotels, and I've stayed at the London and New York Editions. Edition was Marriott's attempt to clone W in the first place. It shows. It should tell everyone something that only the Miami Beach Edition will be among the new Category 8 properties...while there will be 4 W hotels: South Beach, Maldives, Verbier, and Koh Samui. Edition isn't "better" than W as too many people want to pretend.

Edition is more exclusive in that there are so darn few of them. But not in any other ways to me.

I honestly am not sure again of your point. High end hotels in the Starwood universe always have treated me very well. High end hotels in the Ritz-Carlton universe have treated me very well. Not as many high end hotels exist in the regular Marriott universe. I wear shorts and tee-shirts and sandals most often, including when I've stayed recently at the StR San Francisco, the Hotel Imperial Vienna, the RC Kyoto, the Prince de Galles Paris, and the RC Boston.

The Nines Portland, Luxury Collection, has a lounge; I stayed there only Aug 2017. The Prince Gallery Tokyo Kioicho, Luxury Collection, has a wonderful lounge; I stayed there this past May. Again, more luxury hotels in Asia are likely to have lounges than anywhere else, since many more luxury hotels in Asia have lounges/clubs. Of course, RC Kyoto doesn't have a lounge, even as most RC do.

But most luxury brand hotels do not have lounges since they eat into food/beverage revenue.

dayone

Or an EDITION.