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-   -   2020 Shutdown Thread (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/manufactured-spending/2002127-2020-shutdown-thread.html)

craz Feb 13, 2020 8:08 am


Originally Posted by mordakky (Post 32065449)
More info on Citi please! Citi closed my doublecash credit card / checking / savings because I was doing heavy MS on the doublecash. But that's not the reason they gave me. They only pointed to the terms and conditions that said they can close my account for any reason. I lost $1400 in cashback. For my checking/savings they said it was closed for "business transactions on a consumer account" but the ONLY transactions on that account was direct deposit from my real job.


Id say it all depends on how much was your credit limit on the card and how many times you prepaid it off before the statement closed. Realize we get a CL based on what we say we earn. So if you put down say $100K and were charging say $30K a month well thats $360K a year, according to the computers thats not possible = the customer is up to something

this is why the web is full of"Dont ____ with your major bank that you dont want to lose."

Personally Im playing with 1 CC myself but thats the only relationship I have with that issuer, all they can do is close my CC, but after Feb I will be back to normal with them if they dont shut me before that, which I dont think will happen. I want to let the card cool off a bit before going at t again

I doubt Citi will reopen your accts, you may get them to give you the $1400 earned ONLY if you can prove you didnt violate any of the T&Cs, so if you werent suppose to earn the 2% on GCs, I think youd be SOL, but nothing to lose. If on the other hand you were depositing the MOs into Citi and paying off the CC, I dont see Citi throwing anything your way Im sorry to say

tuphat Feb 13, 2020 8:27 am

Re: Citi shut down -- Similar thing happened to me, account closed with earned but unredeemed cash back. I ultimately got the cash back (actually more than what I was owed) but it was long road over several months. Here's what I did, FWIW:

1. Don't bother calling, do everything in writing, at least until they start calling you (see below).
2. I wrote them a demand letter, to re-open account and pay out cash balance.
3. They eventually wrote back, rejected my demand, referenced T&Cs.
4. I wrote them another letter, putting them on notice that I intended to seek arbitration.
5. Didn't here back from them, so I opened case with American Arbitration Assoc. Per T&C, Citi is obligated to pay AAA admin fees; consumer pays nothing. AAA assigns case number.
6. Within a week, I get call from Citi, offering fixed dollar settlement that's actually more than the cash back that I am owed. They obviously look at this as a nuisance.
7. I accept offer, sign release, withdraw arb demand & get check. Account remains closed, but deleted from CR.

tl;dr -- Review your T&C, pursue arbitration if available, be polite but firm.

tuphat Feb 13, 2020 8:33 am

[MENTION=10069969]mordakky[/MENTION] -- I responded to your similar post on other thread, re: Citi DC shutdown. See: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/32067253-post118.html
I was ultimately successful in getting my cash back.
P.S. Don't bother calling, do everything in writing, at least until they call you with settlement offer.

mordakky Feb 13, 2020 8:40 am


Originally Posted by tuphat (Post 32067253)
Re: Citi shut down -- Similar thing happened to me, account closed with earned but unredeemed cash back. I ultimately got the cash back (actually more than what I was owed) but it was long road over several months. Here's what I did, FWIW:

1. Don't bother calling, do everything in writing, at least until they start calling you (see below).
2. I wrote them a demand letter, to re-open account and pay out cash balance.
3. They eventually wrote back, rejected my demand, referenced T&Cs.
4. I wrote them another letter, putting them on notice that I intended to seek arbitration.
5. Didn't here back from them, so I opened case with American Arbitration Assoc. Per T&C, Citi is obligated to pay AAA admin fees; consumer pays nothing. AAA assigns case number.
6. Within a week, I get call from Citi, offering fixed dollar settlement that's actually more than the cash back that I am owed. They obviously look at this as a nuisance.
7. I accept offer, sign release, withdraw arb demand & get check. Account remains closed, but deleted from CR.

tl;dr -- Review your T&C, pursue arbitration if available, be polite but firm.

Citi referred me to adr.org /American Arbitration Assoc for abritration, and they charge $200 to open a case... how'd you get around paying that? Also do you remember exactly what you wrote in your arbitration request?

littlewinglet Feb 13, 2020 10:00 am


Originally Posted by beast7276 (Post 32067010)
dude - no one is going to tell you

Fine with me, I won't share any of my new discoveries. I guess this is how the community works now? We only post common knowledge or updates on shutdowns? I'm not asking for spoonfeeding, and clearly have been around long enough to know pretty much all the tricks. A PM is fine if this is some top secret.

radonc1 Feb 13, 2020 10:33 am


Originally Posted by tuphat (Post 32067253)
Re: Citi shut down -- Similar thing happened to me, account closed with earned but unredeemed cash back. I ultimately got the cash back (actually more than what I was owed) but it was long road over several months. Here's what I did, FWIW:

1. Don't bother calling, do everything in writing, at least until they start calling you (see below).
2. I wrote them a demand letter, to re-open account and pay out cash balance.
3. They eventually wrote back, rejected my demand, referenced T&Cs.
4. I wrote them another letter, putting them on notice that I intended to seek arbitration.
5. Didn't here back from them, so I opened case with American Arbitration Assoc. Per T&C, Citi is obligated to pay AAA admin fees; consumer pays nothing. AAA assigns case number.
6. Within a week, I get call from Citi, offering fixed dollar settlement that's actually more than the cash back that I am owed. They obviously look at this as a nuisance.
7. I accept offer, sign release, withdraw arb demand & get check. Account remains closed, but deleted from CR.

tl;dr -- Review your T&C, pursue arbitration if available, be polite but firm.

Excellent advice.
Arbitration is expensive and I suspect that it is far cheaper for Citi to settle you small claim than to pay for an arbitrator even if they win.

Citi will have to pickup all the costs of Arbitration. So send Citi the demand letter first before opening the case with the Arbitrator.

ogg Feb 13, 2020 10:48 am

Don't bother writing to Citi--you'll be ignored. File for arbitration with JAMS. Eventually, you';ll get the money because it's too small an amount for Citi to pay the arbitration and legal fees.

Yes, there's no reason for Citi to close your deposit accounts because of your credit card activities. But it can do it, and it does--it's vindictive that way. Most banks are.

https://www.citicards.com/cards/wv/J...E_Internet.pdf

mordakky Feb 13, 2020 11:16 am


Originally Posted by radonc1 (Post 32067909)
Excellent advice.
Arbitration is expensive and I suspect that it is far cheaper for Citi to settle you small claim than to pay for an arbitrator even if they win.

Citi will have to pickup all the costs of Arbitration. So send Citi the demand letter first before opening the case with the Arbitrator.

The abitration site says I need to pay $200 to open a case though...

mordakky Feb 13, 2020 11:17 am


Originally Posted by ogg (Post 32067997)
Don't bother writing to Citi--you'll be ignored. File for arbitration with JAMS. Eventually, you';ll get the money because it's too small an amount for Citi to pay the arbitration and legal fees.

Yes, there's no reason for Citi to close your deposit accounts because of your credit card activities. But it can do it, and it does--it's vindictive that way. Most banks are.

https://www.citicards.com/cards/wv/J...E_Internet.pdf

Citi referred me to adr.org to open a case, and there's a $200 fee to open one it looks like, and JAMS says $1750 to open a case...

ogg Feb 13, 2020 11:52 am


Originally Posted by mordakky (Post 32068161)
Citi referred me to adr.org to open a case, and there's a $200 fee to open one it looks like, and JAMS says $1750 to open a case...

Citi refers you to the arbitrator it wants--go to the one it doesn't want.
JAMS charges $250 to consumers to open a case:
https://www.jamsadr.com/arbitration-fees
Demand that you get more than Citi owes you to settle. You'll get back more than that fee, plus your rewards.

mordakky Feb 13, 2020 12:00 pm


Originally Posted by ogg (Post 32068327)
Citi refers you to the arbitrator it wants--go to the one it doesn't want.
JAMS charges $250 to consumers to open a case:
https://www.jamsadr.com/arbitration-fees
Demand that you get more than Citi owes you to settle. You'll get back more than that fee, plus your rewards.

In that case I guess I'll go with American Arbitration Association since it's $200 vs JAMS $250.

mordakky Feb 13, 2020 12:40 pm

I'm a little confused why you guys think I'd win arbitration though? The Terms & Conditions for the account say "We may close your account at any time with or without cause. We may try to notify you in advance should this be necessary, but we are not obliged to do so."

Seems like arbitration would just be a waste of money?

ogg Feb 13, 2020 1:31 pm


Originally Posted by mordakky (Post 32068546)
I'm a little confused why you guys think I'd win arbitration though? The Terms & Conditions for the account say "We may close your account at any time with or without cause. We may try to notify you in advance should this be necessary, but we are not obliged to do so."

Seems like arbitration would just be a waste of money?

Citibank has to pay thousands of dollars as its part of the arbitration, as well as plenty of money to the attorneys that it needs to represent it. It has to pay more if the arbitrator finds against you and you appeal. You're not arbitrating about the closure of the account--you're arbitrating about the confiscation of your rightly earned rewards. (They're not going to reopen your accounts.) You're a nuisance to Citi and not worth the cost of pursuing the issue.

Let me add that I'm not an attorney and this isn't legal advice. Don't take legal advice from a nobody on the Internet. You can probably get an attorney to handle this on a contingency basis--you'll pay nothing unless s/he wins the case.

mordakky Feb 13, 2020 2:14 pm


Originally Posted by ogg (Post 32068731)
Citibank has to pay thousands of dollars as its part of the arbitration, as well as plenty of money to the attorneys that it needs to represent it. It has to pay more if the arbitrator finds against you and you appeal. You're not arbitrating about the closure of the account--you're arbitrating about the confiscation of your rightly earned rewards. (They're not going to reopen your accounts.) You're a nuisance to Citi and not worth the cost of pursuing the issue.

Let me add that I'm not an attorney and this isn't legal advice. Don't take legal advice from a nobody on the Internet. You can probably get an attorney to handle this on a contingency basis--you'll pay nothing unless s/he wins the case.

Thank you. 1 more thing to mention. Not sure if it matters or not, but my Citi cashback balance was at $0, BUT I already had made enough purchases that I would have gotten $1400 cashback on my statement closing date.
Also I lost out on $500 bonus for checking/savings account since they closed those as well a couple weeks before it would have posted. (I already met all the requirements and was just waiting on bonus to post)

ogg Feb 13, 2020 2:26 pm

Look, I know all these agreements have a clause that the bank can close your accounts without a reason. Often they add that they will confiscate all rewards when an account is closed. But that doesn't prevent arbitration on a number of grounds. For example, suppose a bank said it would pay you 10% cash back at the end of six months for all your purchases with no limits on rewards earned--and then closed all accounts that earned $1K or more after five months. Could it really win a court case or arbitration by saying the terms gave it the right to confiscate rewards and close accounts without giving a reason at any time? I don't think our system works that way. It's bait and switch, false advertising--likely many other legal violations of consumer and advertising and banking laws, regardless of what the bank says in its terms. And whether ultimately successful or not, you can still make a stink and get paid to shut up.


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