The point I was trying to make is that I'm a leech in the MS forum. If I increase my post count elsewhere that won't stop me from still being a leech in the MS forum. As to why I don't post elsewhere, the answer is simply because I rarely read anything else.

Okay, well obviously I don't know nearly as much as you do about how this site is run. I thought it might be possible to program the site so certain forums have certain requirements. It would be a variable assigned to the forum, not the member. Every time anyone attempted to post in the forum, the code would check how long the membership had been active. Only those members with 3+ months would be granted access to post.
From a programming perspective this is certainly feasible. Of course I have no idea how the site is currently configured.

No actually, this is not what I meant. What I'm suggesting is a guide that explains how to behave in the forum. I do not think the "new to MS, start here" thread does that at all. I'd like to see a sticky post (locked as well) written by senior members, or perhaps the mod's that explains what the expectations of this forum are.
I think it might be possible that a "welcome to MS, please read first" post that explains -- how to use the MS forum, would increase the over-all quality of the forum without having to limit access.

There's nothing wrong with being a non-contributing member to this forum. I'm one of those. I regularly read what's going on but don't contribute. There's no requirement that I have to contribute and I can't be kicked off because I don't contribute. You can contribute as little or as much as you want under the current rules.

Clearly some here want this forum restricted, though the Talk Board is not considering that and until it reaches them it's really not a serious proposal. The two restricted forums here require you have 180 days of membership and 180 posts. Doesn't matter what forum the posts are in, just that you have 180 of them to be considered a "contributing member" to gain access.

If the forum does become restricted, do you have a plan to get to the 180 or would you just abandon FlyerTalk? Hopefully you'll contribute to any discussion on the Talk Board forum, though I haven't seen any member introduce a motion there so it might be dead in the water for now.

Not 100% true, I just wish the newbie's would READ the fourm first before just posting noob questions that have been answered many times. When it comes to MS, people need to understand the game, but many people just want to be spoon feed the info, this get's in the way of the on going thread. Infact, there is now a stickie for new people to go to and read before posting, but of course that means nothing to some people....

We've had that in place on the AA forum for years and still get basic questions pretty regularly. You can't regulate the amount of reading one has to do before posting on any forum, from just a cursory glance at a stickie or wiki to hours reading over that material on the forum. Sometimes it's just best to answer the question, or point to where the answer to the question can be found, and let the new thread roll onto the next page, never to be seen again. That seems to work on the AA forum as members regularly point to where answers to simple questions can be found and even list the search terms. No reason it can't work the same on this forum.

We used to have an issue where some members would take the opportunity to critique the searching and reading abilities of new members, rather than answer the question or point to where an answer could be found, but the moderators have pretty much eliminated the snarkiness that was common there.

So in other words we can't regulate lazy people?

And that might be the way your use of FT will remain--but not necessarily, and if you're at all interested in travel with what you get from MS, it shouldn't. When I started here, I came in through the Travel Products forum, referred by a Google search for luggage. I probably spent a couple of weeks in that portion of FT, intrigued that there were people out there who argued so passionately over luggage. I didn't post anything there or in any of the other forums I soon discovered because, like you, I figured it was better to keep quiet for awhile until I actually understood what was going on.

If I may offer my suggestion to any newbie, in any online forum, not just FT (and it's a suggestion Trevix has been trying to follow): get familiar with the information the forum covers. Don't feel you need to post immediately. In fact, don't even feel you need to ask a question immediately. First, it's very likely that you don't even yet know what questions to ask. I know that sounds a little sarcastic, but that's actually true about a lot of learning.

Second, with a forum as big as FT, it shouldn't be surprising that your question likely has been asked before so it pays to get familiar with the information already on the site. I don't always push the "search the forum" button, but I can understand why lots of members express frustration when someone asks a question that has clearly been answered several posts above.

The problem with that strategy, as you're learning, is that some want to punish lurkers (leeches?) who do follow good etiquette and try to learn before posting. Of course, since those folks may not speak up, it's hard to tell exactly how many people may view a thread without actually adding a post.

Oh no, wait, it's actually not. When you look at a forum and its threads, in the far right two columns, you'll see statistics for the number of posts and the number of page views. For instance, at the time of this writing, there have been 110 posts and 4456 views of this page. In other words, 40 times the number page views as posts. That doesn't mean that over 4300 different people have viewed this page without posting since some lurkers or viewers may have viewed the thread on multiple occasions without posting, but it gives you some idea that there may be many more like Trevix than there are people like me who've actually posted something in this thread.

So, in the end, if we start trying to punish people for low post counts, we're sure to increase the amount of useless posts from people who are trying to do the right thing by laying low, reading the threads, and posting occasionally. Yep, we let some lazy folks through, but I suspect we'll end up with a ton more folks who actually were trying to do the hard work of learning before posting--if they ever decide to post at all.

It took me awhile before I left the Travel Products forum. And, when I wandered into threads about credit cards or frequent flyer programs, I was astounded by (and actually did not believe) some of the things I read there. My late 2011/early 2011 me, in fact, posted some pretty moralistic views about how bad some of those actions were--and now I do a fair amount of them myself.

So that's one more thing I'd advise to some newbies--keep the moralistic stuff out of your posts as the point of FT is to play at the edges anyway. And the guys on the other side of the table--the credit card companies, the loyalty programs--are definitely not bringing a moralistic view to the table. It's all about profits for them, as it should be for us.

Pretty much so.

We can deal w/them 3 ways:

- ignore the question which was answered a hundred times on the thread;
- flame them for being lazy;
- answer the question for the 101 time.

From what I've seen the third way seems to be the most productive.

That's pretty much it. It's not the place of members here to enforce any rules and regulations at all or to make a determination how vigorously the member posting has done his homework. Your only recourse is to complain to moderators and point out any specific TOS being violated.

Using LinuxQuestions.org as an example. They have a Linux-Newbie sub-forum for beginners to ask questions. If the "experts" don't want to answer the same questions over and over again, they don't need to go there. Having a newbie section does not eliminate newbie questions in the "regular" section but will cut down on # of "newbie" questions.

It's all because newbies get butt hurt because X amount of people tell them they should have searched. It's on almost every forum I've been on. You "hurt their feelings", and they complain about the site. It's the pussification of America.

XDA used to be managed by the community. If you didn't search, the thread quickly escalated into flaming. Then the thread got locked and deleted.

It's also how you intimidate new members to not post. Every member should be made welcome here.

This causes two problems. First, nobody will visit the forum. Go look at the information/flame free forum. It's like a ghost town. Second, you end up with newbie helping newbie. This is not always good. Not only did you not get the knowledge of the more experienced for the newbie who asked the question, but the diligent reader behind reads the crap post and thinks its good as well.

I would also note it's not just newbies who are leeches here. I was contacted by a local FTer who had been around for several years. I made the mistake of telling him something that worked pretty darn well and in exhange he told me how I could get 10% off of my next meal at a restaurant. Yippee! Shockingly, I never heard from him again. I was burned pretty good but learned a very valuable lesson. Figure out who you can trust and sometimes it's not the veterans, but sometimes they are more helpful than you could ever imagine. Same goes for the newbie. Both can be great or a leech.

Apparently. Thanks for the free post pad. :rolleyes:

It's a damn shame that can't be brought to this forum. :td:

That characterization is only your perception, and it's based on ignorance because you can't know the motivations of people solely from their posts.

I don't want this forum to be restricted. To me that goes against the purpose of this site.