Pierre&Cédric

Why? Praising fresh and top quality products is a good point.

gougoul

Well everybody the way he likes it

As for me, I've been twice to the restaurant at Mansion for the "grand" menu, oh boy, how good is it !

jkirk

Absolutely it's a good point, but what he's also doing is absolutely dismissing another less conventional approach to food, and he's saying that anyone who enjoys that other approach "know[s] nothing about taste or products or cuisine in general." So basically he's calling me an idiot.

I love traditional French food, and I love modern Haute Cuisine. The fact that one of my favorite meals ever was at Taillevent and another was at El Bulli doesn't mean anything except that I was amazed by both of these experiences for what they offered me on their own terms.

As far as fresh and top quality ingredients ... sure it's all true, except I suppose I'm interested in chefs who find ways to use everything and waste nothing. When I take a slightly freezer-burnt left over steak out and it contributes to the ragu that I make, I take some pride in that. Much of the offal that has made Fergus Henderson so influential would be considered to be garbage by many. If there's a foie gras left in the walk-in from last night's service that's not fresh enough to be seared but that's still not gone bad, then why the heck not use it to enrich a soup or a sauce? Or turn it into cotton candy, or freeze it into little snowflakes, or whatever?

So what I don't like about Robouchon's quote is that it takes such a narrow view of what fine dining must be and it says in so many words that anyone who doesn't define the experience in the way he does is a fool.

But none of this has anything to do with luxury hotels does it? So I'll just mention to Gougol that we also loved Amansara, so I guess there is something we agree on after all.

gougoul

Well, and it still has nothing to do with luxury hotels, but let me add this,i guess that a guy like Robuchon grew tired of comparisons.
It's basically like comparing works of Keith Haring with works of Rembrandt.
Sure, both are Art but I can't really put them in the same bag. Same applies to food. It's definitly a "funny" way of cooking, and it will maybe evolve to something more mature -again, see Marc Veyrat for that...- but with this sole exception, it can't really be compared to what a great chef does (neither does Georges Blancs' cooking be, but that's a different story). I know some of these great chefs in person, and frankly one can only admire the time spent into finding the ingredients, working on assembling flavors that are not just trying to shock you (like some modern works of art), but are really just melting in your mounth into a sublime moment that makes you think "it was all worth it" (all being the price, the hours spent working to gain that money etc.), and that's about what real luxury hotels should be, compared to great hotels. At the Amansara, we were the first customers of their new villa next to a small lake where one can enjoy an amazing dinner, all candlelit (no electricity in the village...), and boy, that can't be matched by 10 sqft of gold plated TV console at the Burj.
Anyway, I'm quite sure that despite my crappy comments about crap-everything, we probably share the same view on a lot more things

jkirk

Sure, but you are going to compare you have to compare the best of each genre. Bad molecular gastronomy is terrible, but perhaps with more theatrics to hide behind. Adria's cooking, at its best, is every bit as surprising and breathtaking and viscerally wonderful as the masters of haute French. If you want to use art comparison, I'd suggest something more along the lines of:

Paul Bocuse = Picasso
Ferran Adrea = Dali
Blumenthal = Magritte
Dufresne/Achatz = Haring
Thomas Keller = O'Keefe
Most other practioners of MG = the guy who painted "dogs playing poker"

Amanjunkie

Any new additions to this thread? We've been pretty lucky with our hotels lately, so nothing from me, aside from possibly the Grand Hyatt Taipei, which we stayed in a few months ago. Granted, Grand Hyatt's may not actually be considered "luxury", and the Taipei hotel wasn't terrible. But considering the hotel is considered amongst the best in Taiwan, that in itself made it disappointing; tired rooms, tacky decor, and the lack of exceptional service.

One non-disappointment I'd like to report would be the Langham Huntington Hotel in Pasadena, which I stayed in last week. Having grown up in the area and going there even before the change of management to the Ritz-Carlton, I was concerned like many of you of the ownership change to the Langham this year.

I'm happy to say that nothing really seems changed, other than the pink motif that seems to dominate now the branding. But the service was great, the rooms were nice (though I recommend only staying in the Main Building), and the food the best in the area. Highly recommended if you find you need to stay in the San Gabriel Valley.

And to just throw my two cents into the side-topic above, I loved the three Robuchon restaurants I've been to, loved The French Laundry and Ad Hoc (Bouchon not so much), but I am also dying to try elBulli, The Fat Duck and Alinea!

vuittonsofstyle

Getting away from the restaurant angle, my biggest disappointment was FS Koh Samui. Good staff certainly but the rooms were really small compared to what everyone else is doing in that area and I could not get used to having to call for a buggy to get anywhere at all. You cannot walk as the paths are so steep. I could not wait to leave - huge disappointment.

Rane

I stayed at the Bell Tower suite last winter.
It is a large suite but dated and unpleasent. It smelled musty.
It fells like it has not been renovated in decades.
A/C can not be adjusted inside the suite. I had to call the butler who called an engineer to adjust it somewhere out of the room. During days it was too warm, during nights it was far too cold.
Bathroom has very low sealing because of the tower.

My daughter stayed next door in a double room. It also was musty but anyway it has normal A/C.

Very expencive food in the outdoor/patio restaurant was not equal even to Dennys or other low-end chains and service there was slow.

Amanjunkie

Wow, thanks for the head's up, vuittonsofstyle. We haven't been back to Koh Samui for about 6 years now, and the FS was the place we were considering if we had returned. Our previous trip, we stayed at the Baan Taling Ngam when it was a Le Royal Meridien, which at the time was considered one of the top resorts there, if not the best. While our 3 bedroom villa was decent, the design, layout and most of all, service, wasn't up to par to an Aman or even a Four Seasons. So I was happy to hear that they were building a FS there as I think the island itself, if you avoid the busy main streets, is quite beautiful. But hearing your report, I think we may find other options the next time we want to do a Thai island holiday.

vuittonsofstyle

Yes, we stayed at Baan Taling Ngam ages ago. We kept trying to find something great on Samui, but it seems an impossibility. Phuket is so much better. We went back to Trisara and to Amanpuri on the same trip and there is really no contest between the two locations. Samui remains a backpacker sort of place - best avoid it.

Wonderboynyc

It was years ago, so the comment might not be current, but I stayed at what was billed as a luxury hotel, the Fairmont Miramar Hotel and Bugalows in Santa Monica, CA.

I had an ocean view room, and the room was very basic and somewhat dinged up. And the balcony planter had a few dead plants and a bunch of dug up earth. It would have been more inviting if they would have paved it over with cement and stuffed a few fake flowers in it.

I have found that most Fairmont hotels have traditionally suffered from lack of upkeep to the point of being embarrassed for them that they consider themselves a luxury brand. But, this property was worse than most.

BLG

For Santa Monica I would recommend Shutters (more traditional) or Casa Del Mar (trendier).

Which reminds me of a miserable stay not far away at the Ritz in Marina del Rey. It was in the middle of the summer and they had a West Hollywood disco thing going at the pool! Absolutely couldn't believe it -- must have been at least a hundred guests that day who swore they'd never return!

Five Star Traveller

Double post, sorry.

Five Star Traveller

Sadly, my biggest disappointment has to be the Oriental Bangkok. I was really looking forward to staying at such a world-renowned hotel but left feeling extremely let down. It was certainly not up to the level of hype generated by the media. The hotel itself is beautiful and steeped with history. The room itself was very pleasant. Spacious and elegant, though the furnishing is definitely starting to show its age.

My main complaint was with the service. Despite all accounts of the legendary service provided by their staff, my experience was horribly tainted by their arrogance and snobbery. The pretentiousness throughout the hotel was off-putting to say the least. There were a few exceptional staff members of course, but the majority of the ones we encountered were cold and generally unconcerned about meeting our every need.

I was also disappointed by their flagship restaurant, Le Normandie. Maybe my expectations were too high, but I found it only to be just above average for a French restaurant. Maybe one Michelin star quality at the best, if even that. Definitely not exceptional. But the decor of the restaurant was lovely and the views excellent. However, the attitudes of the staff members once again spoiled the mood. Perhaps we didn't fit into the image of an ideal guest, but they made us feel like we were not as important as their "celebrity" clientele. Which was strange, since we met the dress code that they so strictly and rudely enforce.

For example. At the main entrance, we observed that they were quite selective in who they pamper. The well dressed guests never had to lift a finger, while those who deviated from their uptight dress code were promptly denied access or stopped to check Guest ID. Unbelievable! Not the kind of personal service I expected to see.

This experience has left me wondering how the Oriental could possibly maintain such a prestigious reputation. Could I have possibly visited during a very bad week, or are they just very careful to whom they treat to create a false image of faultless service? I have stayed at the Peninsula Bangkok just across the river and found the experience much more enjoyable. The service was in a different league, and the atmosphere was more relaxed and welcoming. Quite a shame really, as the Oriental had most of the aspects of a world-class hotel. If not for the staff, it had the potential to be one of my favorite hotels of all time.

stimpy

Well isn't that how one of the worlds top luxury hotels should be? If you are going to stay at the top, you should dress like it. I am happy they try to discourage the short-and-sneaker-wearing public from entering or staying there. This is one of many reasons this hotel remains one of my all-time favorites. If you like dressing down, there are lots of other very nice hotels in Bangkok who will cater to you. But don't stay at the Oriental!

As for service, your line above is true. The well dressed guests never have to lift a finger. That describes my experiences at the Oriental perfectly. They anticipate your needs and provide what you want before you have to ask for it.