richarddd

I'm leaning towards the Okura in Tokyo, as it seems very well regarded and is significantly less than the Grand Hyatt and Park Hyatt (which seem very popular around here).

What you you recommend in Kyoto?

This is for a vacation in late April.

Any views would be appreciated.

obscure2k

In Kyoto, do yourself a favor and stay at the Tawaraya. It is a ryokan and you will have one of the most luxurious experiences of your life.

Pickles

If the OP can afford the Tawaraya (or the Hiiragiya), then the question of the PHT/GHT vs. Okura would be moot, no? Also, value for money, I prefer the Japanese wing at the Westin Miyako myself. As much as I like Kaiseki, a 12 course meal right before dinner can be a tough slog for me, getting on in years and all.

richarddd

My priorities in a hotel are location, not too small room and, if applicable, view. High-end decor and services are much less important. All within reason, of course. Wonderful food is worth paying extra, as might a unique experience. I'm willing to pay for stuff that's important to me, but not for stuff I don't really care about. As you say, value for money.

What do I get for another $200/night at the PHT v. the Okura (or the CHT, for that matter)?

What does the Tawaraya do that makes it "one of the most luxurious experiences of your life"? A longer version of http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttr...ML/000201.html would be nice.


[This message has been edited by richarddd (edited Jan 05, 2004).]

jeffreyt

I haven't stayed there when I went to Kyoto, but obscure2k is probably one of the most accurate, credible sources of any on the board, and has true first class experience.

If obscure2k says's it is great, I can promise you that obscure2k is right.

Pickles

Since you value view, the PHT has a view. A great view. Nighttime, probably the best view in Tokyo. Would I pay $200 extra for the PHT over the Okura? I've done that many times, and I think it is worth it. What is wrong with the Okura? Nothing. Great location, great service, nice rooms, and a fabulous James Bond 1960's lobby that is to me one of the best arrangements of a public space anywhere.

On the other hand, if I had to single out ONE hotel that I would consider the best I've ever stayed at, this could be it. Contenders are the Oriental in BKK, the Amanjiwo in Central Java, and the Pen and the MO in HK.

Go see "Lost in Translation". If you like the set, you'll like the PHT.

Pickles

I've been to both the Tawaraya and the Hiiragiya. Location is so-so for both (across the street from each other), in a non-descript area of North Kyoto, not really that near to the "Kyoto action." View, not much, unless you pay up extra for one of the rooms with views of the inner gardens. Expensive? You bet. $600 USD a night and up for two people.

What you get is the quintessential Japanese inn experience, which is unique in the world. You also get the best (by Japanese standards) Japanese meal you'll ever get. Mind you, this doesn't mean you'll think it is the greatest Japanese meal you'll have. If you are even a slighly picky Western eater, give it a miss. However, it is certain to be memorable.

Is it worth it? A function of whether you value the experience and the food. I think it is, once (or twice). Just to give you a gauge, both places are favorites of Japanese honeymooners and rich gaijins.


[This message has been edited by Pickles (edited Jan 05, 2004).]

richarddd

We saw "Lost in Translation." Great movie, but no part of our reaction included "gee, that's a great hotel." :-)

Any other hotels in Tokyo (or Kyoto) you'd recommend?

RichardInSF

I haven't had the opportunity to stay at the Tarawaya, but I am willing to believe that it remains possibly the most famous ryokan in the world for good reason. I am quite familiar with the PHT, and can assure you that the standard of service is well above that found at other good upscale Tokyo hotels (and even though I personally prefer the PHT, I am sure the same is true at the FS Maronouchi).

We all have different priorities on how to spend our money. There are many folks who cannot accept that a luxury hotel might be worth a significant premium over a good upscale hotel. If you are in that category, then probably you should post your questions in "TravelBuzz" (where you originally asked about this exact same matter), or in the Asia forum, rather than in "Luxury Hotels."

richarddd

I'm a vegetarian, which sometimes makes dining more of an adventure than I'd want. I usually do fine in high-end restaurants (I wish Lespinasse would come back), but am not sure about authentic Japanese. Would you have any ideas about this?

Speaking of which, we honeymooned in the Canadian Rockies, including Chateau Lake Louise, another favorite of Japanese honeymooners and rich gaijins. Wonderful place.

richarddd

Please don't send me back to TravelBuzz I posted here on the suggestion of a TravelBuzz respondent and so dislike going in circles.

By the way, thank you for your responses in that thread and regarding flying to Osaka for Kyoto rather than NRT+train. Very helpful (especially in I can change the flights).

Pickles

Not even the pool? Even Bill Murray says to Scarlet Johanssen, "cool pool, huh?"

Pickles

If you don't eat fish, don't stay at the Tawaraya. The dinner is likely to be 70% fish, 30% vegetables, and it would be hard to remove the fish part without (a) causing an international incident; (b) ruining your meal because the flavors and ingredients go together; and (c) filling you up because the meal is now measly...

obscure2k

Thanks, JeffreyT for one of the nicest compliments I have ever been paid on FT or anywhere else.

Makanmata

I think that you should also consider the Seiyo Ginza. Although not as new as the PH, I think that its service is unsurpassed in Tokyo, and its Ginza location is excellent.

The Seiyo Ginza is managed by Rosewood, who do a splendid job at their Asian properties. The Dharmawangsa in Jakarta is my favorite city hotel anywhere, and particularly special (if you like Amanjiwo -- another favorite -- it will be your kind of place).

[This message has been edited by Makanmata (edited Jan 06, 2004).]