Facing Up to the New Reality Escalating Luxe Hotel Rates
Mar 21, 2024, 11:25 am
#136
Join Date: Oct 2022
Location: nyc/l.a.
Programs: all of 'em.
Posts: 317
When paying for these sorts of hotels myself (family, vacation, leisure) i rarely return to the same hotel (or even location) twice.
Thus, it's difficult for me to accurately gauge year-over-year inflation.
It's more of a feeling - it feels like all hotels, pretty much everywhere, have seen dramatic rises in rack rates.
Whether it's luxury, upscale, or Court-Hill by Hil-iott. Up, up, up.
But just for fun, i looked at the last lengthy/spendy leisure trip i took - Morocco, last spring. Spouse and I spent freely and stayed in the most expensive room classes
(1-2BR that is, Royal Mansour and MO had 3-5BR villas we didn't need/want).
Marrakech is not a major world population center or anything, but it has a comically outsize number of luxury hotels/resorts on offer.
Surely the largest centralized confluence of such properties on the African continent and - outside of Dubai and a handful of island nations - possibly the most in Near Asia and MIddle East as well. It's just one market, and it's not Paris or HK, but it's a luxury market.
June 2023 vs. June 2024
Olinto - Eucalyptus 1BR pavillion
1000euro to 1250euro p.n. (still an outrageous bargain at 1250)
MO RAK - Oriental 2BR Pool villa
1750euro to 2250euro p.n.
Royal Mansour - prestige riad
$1950us to $1935us p.n.
While I'm a bit shocked to see RM price actually come down year on year, the other two saw significant escalation.
Perhaps most telling is the one 'chain' among the three (MO) seeing the biggest increase.
(And it was easily our least favorite of the three).
Thus, it's difficult for me to accurately gauge year-over-year inflation.
It's more of a feeling - it feels like all hotels, pretty much everywhere, have seen dramatic rises in rack rates.
Whether it's luxury, upscale, or Court-Hill by Hil-iott. Up, up, up.
But just for fun, i looked at the last lengthy/spendy leisure trip i took - Morocco, last spring. Spouse and I spent freely and stayed in the most expensive room classes
(1-2BR that is, Royal Mansour and MO had 3-5BR villas we didn't need/want).
Marrakech is not a major world population center or anything, but it has a comically outsize number of luxury hotels/resorts on offer.
Surely the largest centralized confluence of such properties on the African continent and - outside of Dubai and a handful of island nations - possibly the most in Near Asia and MIddle East as well. It's just one market, and it's not Paris or HK, but it's a luxury market.
June 2023 vs. June 2024
Olinto - Eucalyptus 1BR pavillion
1000euro to 1250euro p.n. (still an outrageous bargain at 1250)
MO RAK - Oriental 2BR Pool villa
1750euro to 2250euro p.n.
Royal Mansour - prestige riad
$1950us to $1935us p.n.
While I'm a bit shocked to see RM price actually come down year on year, the other two saw significant escalation.
Perhaps most telling is the one 'chain' among the three (MO) seeing the biggest increase.
(And it was easily our least favorite of the three).
Mar 21, 2024, 6:38 pm
#137
Original Member
Original Poster
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Palo Alto, CA, USA
Posts: 3,222
Where this is going — the upper middle class is excluded but for occasional blowouts. Only the mostly rich need apply. I do mourn being of the sorta mostly upper middle class. But I had a VERY good run.
Mar 22, 2024, 9:18 am
#138
Join Date: Oct 2022
Location: nyc/l.a.
Programs: all of 'em.
Posts: 317
I daresay it's also not necessarily over for you, at least in terms of pricing.
This thread is mos def interesting, but the hard truth is none of us can predict what's going to happen with pricing, on anything.
To quote Luis Cyphre (Bobby DeNiro) in 'Angel Heart" - an excellent, long lost 80's noir classic that nobody will remember: "The future is never what it used to be".
It's pretty insane right now, granted, but it's also a weird time with both pent-upr/revenge-demand and inflation still peaked. And while the world seems out-of-control with wars, conflicts, bonkers 'politicans', etc, right now, it seems like we're virtually always just one or two steps away from some kind of significant correction. It doesn't (necessarily) have to be as awful as a major terrorist event, let alone an organism far deadlier than coronavirus or the zombies finally arriving en masse.
Things are always changing; to expect otherwise is fully delusory.
As for me, my 'run' has been pretty good. True luxury has been fairly infrequent in my work travels, and the locations tend to be the same - nyc, l.a., rome, nashville, austin, a few others.
But I feel like I've got a good decade left to spend (highly) irresponsibly on family/friends/romance trips, and way more places on my hitlist than i'll ever hit.
I'm confident I'll 'choose' to afford these places (if i indeed can), and if the top level is just too obscene at any given moment, i'll 'settle' for slumming at a Como or TLC/LXR type property.
Meantime, yeah, yikes.
Last edited by cornwall4000; Mar 22, 2024 at 11:29 am
Mar 22, 2024, 11:33 am
#139
Join Date: May 2014
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 353
When paying for these sorts of hotels myself (family, vacation, leisure) i rarely return to the same hotel (or even location) twice.
Thus, it's difficult for me to accurately gauge year-over-year inflation.
It's more of a feeling - it feels like all hotels, pretty much everywhere, have seen dramatic rises in rack rates.
Thus, it's difficult for me to accurately gauge year-over-year inflation.
It's more of a feeling - it feels like all hotels, pretty much everywhere, have seen dramatic rises in rack rates.
There's been a big rise in many Italy hotel prices as well.
Mar 22, 2024, 1:01 pm
#140
Community Director Emerita
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Anywhere warm
Posts: 33,747
I've been avoiding Europe due to high hotel prices. Prices people are reporting in Paris and London make me choke. What makes it worse for me is that those are city hotels where the purpose of my travel would be to enjoy the city and not spend a substantial amount of time in the hotel. Paying such prices in order to have a comfortable room in which to sleep is unacceptable to me. In the past year we've had amazing trips to Asia including Vietnam and Malaysia where we did not skimp in any way. We're in Australia now where the US dollar is strong against the Australian dollar. We're paying roughly $2000 US per night for all inclusive stays at Saffire Freycinet and Southern Ocean Lodge. We do have an upcoming trip to Albania that will end in Vienna. There, I'm using points and an upgrade cert for a suite at the Park Hyatt Vienna, a beautiful hotel.
This reminds me of our start to our international travel life as cash strapped young professionals. After a couple European trips, we pivoted to central America where we had wonderful economical trips to Costa Rica, Guatemala, El Salvador and more. Fortunately, we knew nothing of luxury travel and were willing to chose inexpensive accommodations. My point is we were mindful of where to travel in order to stretch our travel budget.
This reminds me of our start to our international travel life as cash strapped young professionals. After a couple European trips, we pivoted to central America where we had wonderful economical trips to Costa Rica, Guatemala, El Salvador and more. Fortunately, we knew nothing of luxury travel and were willing to chose inexpensive accommodations. My point is we were mindful of where to travel in order to stretch our travel budget.
Mar 22, 2024, 1:17 pm
#141
Join Date: Oct 2022
Location: nyc/l.a.
Programs: all of 'em.
Posts: 317
It may be even more pronounced in true international luxury markets like Paris, Venice, HK, Cote d'Azur, Tokyo, Greece, Etc. Seems like it is.
But right 'here' in my own bicoastal hometowns - nyc and l.a., perhaps not quite the same category as those above and other world locations - it's been plenty crazypants and for awhile now.
The YOY pricing increases in these two US 'capitols' are staggering enough, but what really startles me is the seemingly neverending spawn of new luxury/upscale product.
Pens, Dorchs, MO's, Rosewood's, even Aman and Maybourne entering the fray.
FS's and RC's all over the joint, choose your neighborhood.
And yet someone - someone very smart, i'd have to assume - still finances additional WA's (BH), RC's (Nomad), Fouquets/Barrieres, Baccarats, to say nothing of 'upscale' brands like Nobu, Thompson, Proper, Editions, 1's.... Or independent properties like Greenwich Hotel, The Mark, L'ermitage, The London, 5th Ave Hotel, etc.
These types of places (luxury or upscale) almost NEVER close, and rarely go down in price. They just get substantial investment and/or new ownership and re-opened. The re-builds/re-brands/re-do's seem to happen every 5-7 years now at some venues. The London turns into a Conrad (NY). Montage becomes a Maybourne (BH), Loews becomes Regent (SM), BHH/HBA become Dorchester..
I picture Langham execs in a conf room somewhere, wondering why they don't have a hotel in L.A., "we can't get any closer than Pasadena? we gotta get on this!". Or Bulgari in NYC. MO nearly had one in BH but ended up being residence only. Holding my breath for a Six Senses in Greenpoint or West Adams, "the new cultural center of [NY/L.A.]™"
On and on and on.
My brain knows the demand n NYC/L.A.must be outpacing the cell-dividing-every-microsecond supply, almost by definition, as demonstrated by the barbaric price increases.
But..... how? And moreover, for how long?
But right 'here' in my own bicoastal hometowns - nyc and l.a., perhaps not quite the same category as those above and other world locations - it's been plenty crazypants and for awhile now.
The YOY pricing increases in these two US 'capitols' are staggering enough, but what really startles me is the seemingly neverending spawn of new luxury/upscale product.
Pens, Dorchs, MO's, Rosewood's, even Aman and Maybourne entering the fray.
FS's and RC's all over the joint, choose your neighborhood.
And yet someone - someone very smart, i'd have to assume - still finances additional WA's (BH), RC's (Nomad), Fouquets/Barrieres, Baccarats, to say nothing of 'upscale' brands like Nobu, Thompson, Proper, Editions, 1's.... Or independent properties like Greenwich Hotel, The Mark, L'ermitage, The London, 5th Ave Hotel, etc.
These types of places (luxury or upscale) almost NEVER close, and rarely go down in price. They just get substantial investment and/or new ownership and re-opened. The re-builds/re-brands/re-do's seem to happen every 5-7 years now at some venues. The London turns into a Conrad (NY). Montage becomes a Maybourne (BH), Loews becomes Regent (SM), BHH/HBA become Dorchester..
I picture Langham execs in a conf room somewhere, wondering why they don't have a hotel in L.A., "we can't get any closer than Pasadena? we gotta get on this!". Or Bulgari in NYC. MO nearly had one in BH but ended up being residence only. Holding my breath for a Six Senses in Greenpoint or West Adams, "the new cultural center of [NY/L.A.]™"
On and on and on.
My brain knows the demand n NYC/L.A.must be outpacing the cell-dividing-every-microsecond supply, almost by definition, as demonstrated by the barbaric price increases.
But..... how? And moreover, for how long?
Mar 23, 2024, 4:13 pm
#142
Original Member
Original Poster
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Palo Alto, CA, USA
Posts: 3,222
I've been avoiding Europe due to high hotel prices. Prices people are reporting in Paris and London make me choke. What makes it worse for me is that those are city hotels where the purpose of my travel would be to enjoy the city and not spend a substantial amount of time in the hotel. Paying such prices in order to have a comfortable room in which to sleep is unacceptable to me. In the past year we've had amazing trips to Asia including Vietnam and Malaysia where we did not skimp in any way. We're in Australia now where the US dollar is strong against the Australian dollar. We're paying roughly $2000 US per night for all inclusive stays at Saffire Freycinet and Southern Ocean Lodge. We do have an upcoming trip to Albania that will end in Vienna. There, I'm using points and an upgrade cert for a suite at the Park Hyatt Vienna, a beautiful hotel.
This reminds me of our start to our international travel life as cash strapped young professionals. After a couple European trips, we pivoted to central America where we had wonderful economical trips to Costa Rica, Guatemala, El Salvador and more. Fortunately, we knew nothing of luxury travel and were willing to chose inexpensive accommodations. My point is we were mindful of where to travel in order to stretch our travel budget.
This reminds me of our start to our international travel life as cash strapped young professionals. After a couple European trips, we pivoted to central America where we had wonderful economical trips to Costa Rica, Guatemala, El Salvador and more. Fortunately, we knew nothing of luxury travel and were willing to chose inexpensive accommodations. My point is we were mindful of where to travel in order to stretch our travel budget.
Mar 31, 2024, 2:16 pm
#143
Join Date: May 2014
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 353
Not sure about the merit of these claims, but it looks like there are several recent lawsuits alleging US luxury hotel rate inflation due to price fixing via algorithmic platforms that share detailed data between competitors (e.g. Amadeus Demand360 and Smith Travel Research).
- "This case is about an ongoing information exchange among hotel operators that has unlawfully reduced competition in the Luxury Hotel Metropolitan Markets across the country. ... Competitors in the luxury hotel industry have agreed to continuously share their detailed, audited, competitively-sensitive information about their prices, supply, and future plans through an intermediary..."
- "Armed with the occupancy data from Demand360, Hotel Defendants no longer need to cut prices to fill rooms but can increase (and maintain) artificially inflated rates based on otherwise proprietary information about competitors’ room supply,"