Negative account balance [merged repayment of SEN overdraft thread]
Sep 28, 2007, 11:40 am
#46
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Sep 28, 2007, 11:49 am
#47
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What do German laws say about disclosure of the contract? Or after-the-fact changes to loan conditions? Or loans to underaged children? Even if your parallel to a money loan were valid, which I don't at all think it is, the situation is wrought with legal problems. But please continue to repeat the same information over and over and over again. Maybe more people will finally start to subliminally dream them and eventually embrace them. 
For my argument I do not need a parallel to a money loan, a loan under German law does not need to involve money: If you "borrow" an egg from your neighbor it is a loan in the legal sense of the word and you certainly intend (and need) to give an egg back.
And there certainly were not changes to loan conditions: You got x miles and always had to give x miles back. Cash value of the miles always remained the same. There were certain changes in the earning conditions for miles: When you took the loan you were not aware of T-Mobile promotions, Die Welt promotions or Activest promotions. However, you could earn more miles when flying. So what? If you take a loan from your bank, you can never be sure that the value of money will be the same the day you have to pay it back. Earning conditions changed, to the good and the bad.
And your further question:
If their case is clear-cut, why would it cost them a lot for the game, as you call it?
Sep 28, 2007, 11:55 am
#48
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Could not agree more
Even worse looking for arguments in order to blame the owner of the rented matter. You took the advantage, so now pay for it.
Sep 28, 2007, 12:12 pm
#49
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Cheers
Thomas
Sep 28, 2007, 12:38 pm
#50
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In my opinion LH is trying to ripp off people. They have offered an overdraft. First I expect anyone to pay it back. But: LH changed the mileage earning conditions. So for some flights you get now 125 miles instead of 1.000 miles. Or in cheap economy longhaul flights only 50% or even less. Why should a customer pay back more then he expected before??? Lufthansa changed the condiditons and now they have to accept the fact, that some clients will not accept LHs behaviour.
Also, I would like to point out § 2.5 in their terms and conditions:
2.5. Mileage expiry
Any mileage not redeemed within 36 months of the date of accrual (date
of flight, start of hotel stay, time of car rental) expires at the end
of the following quarter, failing other arrangements published in the
Miles & More communication media.
Attention will be drawn in good time to the date and extent of the
lapsed mileage in the Miles & More account information or in the
personal Internet mileage account.
If the mileage expires, also a negative balance must expire. So just wait and see. 36 month after loosing status any balance will be zeroed according to their own rules.
Also, I would like to point out § 2.5 in their terms and conditions:
2.5. Mileage expiry
Any mileage not redeemed within 36 months of the date of accrual (date
of flight, start of hotel stay, time of car rental) expires at the end
of the following quarter, failing other arrangements published in the
Miles & More communication media.
Attention will be drawn in good time to the date and extent of the
lapsed mileage in the Miles & More account information or in the
personal Internet mileage account.
If the mileage expires, also a negative balance must expire. So just wait and see. 36 month after loosing status any balance will be zeroed according to their own rules.
Sep 28, 2007, 12:46 pm
#51
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How pathetic can some people possibly be ? You loaned miles from LH, so you have to pay the money back or earn miles to deduct your loan. End of Story.
Sep 28, 2007, 1:58 pm
#52
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I've already said myself that this subject has been slashed to death and still we get a re-re-peat of personal philosophies. I'll gladly shut up when we all do.
Sep 28, 2007, 2:09 pm
#53
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- A loan has to be repaid according to statutory German law. There was nothing in the terms and conditions that this loan had not to be paid back. So the repay clause was not an "invention" but a result of statutory German law governing to relationship as such.
- The value of the miles was always knwon because M&M always sold miles to consumers. If you took an overdraft of 10k miles you always knew what you had to pay if you had to buy the miles to redeposit them
But rest assured: I will never ever borrow YOU anything. The risk of enterering intoi a discussion that I gave it to you as a present is evident.
Last edited by Flying Lawyer; Sep 28, 2007 at 2:17 pm
Sep 28, 2007, 2:36 pm
#54
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Sep 28, 2007, 2:45 pm
#55
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Sep 28, 2007, 3:10 pm
#56
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Originally Posted by SleepOverGreenland
Sad, what narrow minded people are around. 
Sep 28, 2007, 3:26 pm
#57
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Sep 28, 2007, 3:37 pm
#58
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Sep 28, 2007, 4:27 pm
#59
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